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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-01-2021, 05:18 PM   #1
alexbrasile
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 155
Would you just limp this hand from EP?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 168.1 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 100 BB
UTG+1: 151.8 BB
Hero (MP): 100.9 BB
CO: 98.5 BB
BTN: 165.6 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5 5

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, BTN raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (18.5 BB, 2 players) 5 9 J
Hero checks, BTN bets 17 BB, Hero raises to 34 BB, BTN raises to 157.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 58.9 BB and is all-in

Turn: (204.3 BB, 2 players) T

River: (204.3 BB, 2 players) 2

Hero shows 5 5 (Three of a Kind, Fives)
(Pre 19%, Flop 86%, Turn 77%)
BTN shows 8 8 (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 81%, Flop 14%, Turn 23%)
Hero wins 195.1 BB


I guess if I had raised it instead of limping, it'd be hard to extract like this. What do you think about it?
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Old 05-02-2021, 05:46 PM   #2
jdr0317
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Why would you limp and then call that big raise when you could’ve just raised yourself?

AP flop minraise is bad. But fortunately our play doesn’t matter very much when our opponents play this poorly


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Old 05-04-2021, 07:33 AM   #3
derjan
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

it is ok.

We can't raise for value preflop.

Hand plays bad postflop unless we hit.

Like to play this hand multiway so we are more likely to get paid off when we hit.

Also we should take into account that the limpers might limp raise if we raise and we like to see a flop with this hand so don't want to be raised of our hand.

Preflop is still marginal but ok if villain is bad enough to pay us off
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:27 AM   #4
DDAWD
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

pocket 5s are pretty good in a 7 person table. I would have definitely raised pre. Try to isolate the limper.
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:57 AM   #5
derjan
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Yeah I think raising pre is ok but don't think overlimping is that bad for the reasons mentioned
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Old 05-10-2021, 05:53 PM   #6
antialias
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

I don't know how well you can count on extracting value like this. In my mind the only reason you got such great value was because Btn butchered his hand (pls correct me if I'm wrong). So this hand isn't really a good example for/against limping.
You called pre and he has third pair and goes all-in after a reraise on the flop?
What exactly is he trying to accomplish?
(That said I think a limp is fine - as would be a raise depending on table dynamics. I'd want multiple players in the pot when I hit)
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:36 PM   #7
Magnum1111
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Small pairs should be folded up front. This is especially true if the game is at all aggressive and there has been any 3 betting going on.

Open limping is bad poker and you are just asking to be exploited by aggressive players.

Good, aggressive players will identify all open-limpers as fish and proceed accordingly. Do you want the other players to think you are a fish? Personally I raise 6x the bb + any limps when I am trying to hammer limpers. I got that technique from Sky Matsuhasha's blog and it works pretty well. It gets folds. Or what is your alternative, to call? Do you call 7x, out of position, heads up, and hope for an 11-1 shot. That's not a good way to make money in poker.

Pocket 5's is not +EV from early position. A fold is in order.

You should not raise and make the pot bigger with a hand that is -EV (unless you've got something else going for you, like position and/or fold equity or fish hunting). You especially shouldn't be doing this when you are so out of position.

Pocket 5's are ok to raise from late position when you have good fold equity versus the remaining opponents. What you are really hoping for is a fold or to get to the showdown cheap.

Limping behind is different from open limping. I would gladly limp behind, when in late position, with small pocket pairs. Same with completing the small blind in a limped pot and maybe calling a small raise from the bb depending upon the pot odds I am being given. Cold calling a raise with small pairs is usually, yuk. Maybe if it is already like 4 way when it gets to me I might throw in a couple chips to see the flop, but usually you are burning money by cold calling raises with small pairs - especially heads up and/or out of position.

GL Magnum
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:45 PM   #8
Magnum1111
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

After I wrote all that I realized that you didn't open limp, you limped behind. Also the game is 7 way, not full, so you were in the HJ seat.

To me, the better play is to fold unless you are in late position and the it is ok to limp behind, but if I'm being honest, the situation is just marginal enough that I may limp along once in a while like you did.

Calling a 3 bet out of position, heads up, is not good. Break that habit. That's just my advice, take it for what it is worth.

Magnum
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Old 05-18-2021, 05:34 PM   #9
Magnum1111
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Small pairs should be folded up front. This is especially true if the game is at all aggressive and there has been any 3 betting going on.

Open limping is bad poker and you are just asking to be exploited by aggressive players.

Good, aggressive players will identify all open-limpers as fish and proceed accordingly. Do you want the other players to think you are a fish? Personally I raise 6x the bb + any limps when I am trying to hammer limpers. I got that technique from Sky Matsuhasha's blog and it works pretty well. It gets folds. Or what is your alternative, to call? Do you call 7x, out of position, heads up, and hope for an 11-1 shot. That's not a good way to make money in poker.

Pocket 5's is not +EV from early position. A fold is in order.

You should not raise and make the pot bigger with a hand that is -EV (unless you've got something else going for you, like position and/or fold equity or fish hunting). You especially shouldn't be doing this when you are so out of position.

Pocket 5's are ok to raise from late position when you have good fold equity versus the remaining opponents. What you are really hoping for is a fold or to get to the showdown cheap.

Limping behind is different from open limping. I would gladly limp behind, when in late position, with small pocket pairs. Same with completing the small blind in a limped pot and maybe calling a small raise from the bb depending upon the pot odds I am being given. Cold calling a raise with small pairs is usually, yuk. Maybe if it is already like 4 way when it gets to me I might throw in a couple chips to see the flop, but usually you are burning money by cold calling raises with small pairs - especially heads up and/or out of position.

GL Magnum
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:28 AM   #10
phneo
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Agree the maniac would most likely have paid a lot less if you raised.
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Old 05-26-2021, 02:31 PM   #11
royaldan
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Join Date: Apr 2021
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Re: Would you just limp this hand from EP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum1111 View Post
Small pairs should be folded up front. This is especially true if the game is at all aggressive and there has been any 3 betting going on.

Open limping is bad poker and you are just asking to be exploited by aggressive players.

Good, aggressive players will identify all open-limpers as fish and proceed accordingly. Do you want the other players to think you are a fish? Personally I raise 6x the bb + any limps when I am trying to hammer limpers. I got that technique from Sky Matsuhasha's blog and it works pretty well. It gets folds. Or what is your alternative, to call? Do you call 7x, out of position, heads up, and hope for an 11-1 shot. That's not a good way to make money in poker.

Pocket 5's is not +EV from early position. A fold is in order.

You should not raise and make the pot bigger with a hand that is -EV (unless you've got something else going for you, like position and/or fold equity or fish hunting). You especially shouldn't be doing this when you are so out of position.

Pocket 5's are ok to raise from late position when you have good fold equity versus the remaining opponents. What you are really hoping for is a fold or to get to the showdown cheap.

Limping behind is different from open limping. I would gladly limp behind, when in late position, with small pocket pairs. Same with completing the small blind in a limped pot and maybe calling a small raise from the bb depending upon the pot odds I am being given. Cold calling a raise with small pairs is usually, yuk. Maybe if it is already like 4 way when it gets to me I might throw in a couple chips to see the flop, but usually you are burning money by cold calling raises with small pairs - especially heads up and/or out of position.

GL Magnum
I agree with Magnum — generally.
However, small pairs when they flop a set are deceptive and can stack a preflop raiser with A-K or A-Q when you hit that 7.5-1 shot.
And if your potential return (implied odds) is greater than 7.5-1, it is worth a shot. Also if you miss your set with a small pair, it's an easy hand to get away from.

Sometimes a min-raise (3 or 4x) the BB in small or micro-stakes games will fend off a bigger raise and add to the deception of your hand. However, that is very exploitable and you are subject to a three-bet from an aware opponent.
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