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50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River 50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River

09-03-2021 , 06:38 PM
Villain is 20/15/5/ over 1,000 hands. Does he really ever do this with a Jack high flush? Though I've certainly under repped my hand until the river. Definitely a different spot. Thoughts on the play of the hand as a whole are appreciated.

CO: 131.38 BB
Hero (BTN): 123.9 BB
SB: 120.78 BB
BB: 124.46 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 K

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) Q 7 9
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6 BB, 2 players) 6
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (6 BB, 2 players) 3
SB bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 19 BB, SB raises to 118.28 BB and is all-in, Hero?
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-03-2021 , 07:59 PM
its a call. should he be able to do this with lower flushes given your line? yes. do people actually do that? usually not. we're hoping to see Acxo or some random freakout i guess. i will admit i dont know how many Acxo a 20/15 is going to have flatting the sb vs a button open and how many of them dont bet the turn but then pot the river but it just doesnt matter, we're going to end up calling in any kind of theoretical scenario / simulation. i think your line in general is fine but i wouldnt mind cbetting the flop since i dont expect him to have a ton of strong hands that dont 3b pre and you block 77 if he flats with that
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-03-2021 , 08:08 PM
River is kind of whatever. What happened to the rest of the hand? Need to get flop and turn
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-03-2021 , 09:12 PM
Dont expect 20/15/5 player to make big bluffs, and given raise size its very hard to play villain for Q or wose flush draw, also for tight players wheel aces make nice chunk of their sb calling range especially if bb uis a fish, but no info on this
btw, you have position and nuts advantage on the flop (even against this player) you should start betting earlier
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Dont expect 20/15/5 player to make big bluffs, and given raise size its very hard to play villain for Q or wose flush draw, also for tight players wheel aces make nice chunk of their sb calling range especially if bb uis a fish, but no info on this
btw, you have position and nuts advantage on the flop (even against this player) you should start betting earlier
That's really the issue here, is a guy with these stats really make a huge bluff here, or value jamming the 4th nuts, as the Qc is on the board. I know as played it's tough to put me on the second nuts, but he is jamming with worse? Guys like this are typically doing this for value only at these limits I've mostly found. And I could've certainly bet the flop and mostly I would, but against regs I do like to have a checking back range in these spots from time to time that are still strong hands, at least that is my thinking.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 09:09 AM
Ranges wise he have more axs than mid offsuit aces and weaker suited braodways, so just purely from this point he have more nuts than good bluffs, and his bluffs are just a acx, i just dont belive villain is 5x raising all flsuhes, but maybe i dont know your pool enaugh, but even if pool is doing this i just dont expect this from so tight villain, only consideration is that player know you overfold and started bluffing you a ton, and this is something you have to be awere of
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 10:10 AM
In theory, it's bound to be a call, but in practice, I'm not so sure. Also, as others have said, I think this should be a decent frequency bet on either flop or turn, although you do need some flushes in your check/check line.

Against a fairly tight reg, I think we can assume bluffs are only AcX, and you'd assume AK is a 3bet pre, and AQ is mainly a turn bet. AJ might not even be a call pre, so I'm not sure villain has many if any bluffs.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 11:03 AM
Agree that betting earlier is the best way.

As played - its a fold on the river I think.

Can't see that big of shove without the nuts.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 06:37 PM
You haven't shown a ton of strength, you opened for 2.5 and then made a 19bb bet on the river.

But still he's going from a 6 bb raise to 118? I don't think a lot of players are savvy enough to make that bluff, and it would have to work a HUGE portion of the time. There's only 30 big blinds in the pot and he's shoving 118 at it? If villain is bluffing it has to work out for him ~80% of the time to be profitable. Which heavily implies he is not bluffing.

It's also interesting that the King and Queen are accounted for, so I don't think he's doing this with a Jack-high flush. If you call I think you're gonna get shown the Ace of Clubs nearly 100% of the time; so it's a question of how many times does it come with another club?

You have to call 100 big blinds to win 150 big blinds. Final pot would be 250, 100/250 so you have to be good 40% of the time here. I think that he's bluffing well under 25% of the time here so I wouldn't call.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 07:50 PM
If you think villain can ONLY do this with Axcc, then, sure, fold. But if it's at all possible he does it with Jxcc/JT/33/66/76s, you have to call. You did not bet the flop (probably for good reason), so v probably assumes you do not have the flush, which means he can value raise and bluff more.

Last edited by bailashtoreth; 09-04-2021 at 07:57 PM.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-04-2021 , 08:14 PM
Taking a look at this hand again, flop is very favourable for our hand, if villain cr us he is more likely to do this with aq than kq, so we have over+FD, he never have qq here, we block set of 7's, and 99 may not be in his calling range, even with coldcall he may still choose to 3bet 99, and most important we unblock some of his combo draws we domiinate that he can cr us and stack of, so IMO checking flop given all this is no less than a blunder
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-05-2021 , 03:34 AM
River looks like a crying call to me.

If u only defend with nut flushes then villain can just bluff any time he has the nut flush blocker. (Which is what a lot of Players actually do).

But I would just cbet flop and go from there.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-05-2021 , 09:23 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Comments and thoughts are all over the place, from c betting more to snap folding or snap calling or crying calling the river haha. Yes he could be bluffing with AcX, not sure how many of those types of hands he flats in the SB PF though. With the Qc on the board at best he has the 3rd nuts. However I haven't shown any interest in the pot until my river raise. It may have been an easier hand to play if I would've bet before in the hand, but as I said earlier I do on small occasions against a reg like to check these spots to show I have a strong checking range. A tough spot to really figure out what to do. It has given me a lot to think about, so I really do appreciate all the thoughts and comments.
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote
09-05-2021 , 09:36 AM
just 1 more thing, if villain have hand like a5cc and all the money go into the pot on the flop you have 60% to win
50NL - 2nd Nut Flush on River Quote

      
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