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50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision 50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision

02-10-2009 , 07:06 PM
I've been running pretty good against villain, I'm up about a buyin. He bet a missed flush on the river in like the 1st/2nd hand in a pretty bad spot after c/c down 2 streets. He also c/r on an A42r board, bet a about 2/3 on an A turn then c/f an Ace river. Mostly he's pretty straight forward though, 3-betting about 10-15% of his hands. I've folded to allot of his 3-bets. I haven't seen him check a made hand on the flop yet (1 pair+) with the lead.

I've called him fairly light in some spots, but not in a pot anywhere near this size.

Really couldn't see what he was repping on the river, is this standard?

BB: $50.00
Hero (BTN/SB): $99.40

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN/SB with Q A
Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $5, Hero calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.00) 8 6 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($10.00) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $6.00, Hero calls $6

River: ($22.00) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $12.00, Hero calls $12
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-10-2009 , 09:11 PM
methinks Q9dd hit a nice river. I doubt his air bets this board twice, but I like the turn call.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-10-2009 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
methinks Q9dd hit a nice river. I doubt his air bets this board twice, but I like the turn call.
I think it's maybe a problem with my game where I tend to follow through a decision rather than re-evaluate at each information point. On the turn I was 90% sure I was ahead, on the river I didn't really like calling (it felt more like a follow through from the turn decision): the fact I was ahead in the match, the thought he might be tilting and the fact I couldn't put him on a solid range on the river lead me to call.

I think a range Td9d/Jd9d/Qd9d make enough sense though looking back.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-10-2009 , 10:10 PM
river bet looks like a solid value bet though thats the problem.... i cant see why he would make this bet size with air. factor in also that he may have been aiming to c/r the flop
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 01:31 AM
he looks like he's weak. if he's not a station i like to shove. but folding is ok too
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 01:55 AM
Why not just 4bet pre?
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Tamer
Why not just 4bet pre?
This is probably best if villain sees the 4b as resistance rather than strength, but at 50nl i assume he reads it as strength and I basically never expect him to get it in pre looser than like 88+,AQ+ without some sort of tilting history. I'd prefer to just call IP and exploit his straightforward postflop play.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 06:50 AM
Well what hand do I put the villain on? That line could represent a pocket pair, which obviously has you beat, even with something as strong as a set, although you'd expect him to flat with small pairs rather than 3-bet. Aside from random gutshots, it is pretty hard to put you on a hand that has outs versus his set, and if he simply has an overpair like TT or JJ, he'd potentially just let you bluff with all of your missed overcards.

With the action going check-check on the flop, it is somewhat harder to evaluate where you are at on later streets, so Ace-high could certainly be good---especially your ace high which beats a lot of other Ace-highs. So, I would be tempted to peel the turn with AQ.

However, the river is a little different. If he is betting the river with the intention of getting called, he is looking to get called by Ace-high a lot. Your hand range is a little bit more well-defined than his in this hand as a weak made hand or a bluff catcher. At this point, given your hand should look like what it is to him, the fact that he continues to bet the river should scare you a little bit. Where your odds of being best on the turn are pretty decent, I think they go down considerably on the river. And it has little to do with the fact that he could have spiked a nine---it has more to do with what both of your hand ranges look like and the fact that he is betting the final two streets into you in a 3-bet pot.

So folding the river might be the play. However, it is 50NL, and crazy lines are taken for often times no apparent reason. You do have a bluff catcher, and if you want to call for information against a potentially ******ed opponent who you might have beat, it cannot be all that bad.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 08:44 AM
Easy fold explained well by nair. I also like turn call.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nair
Well what hand do I put the villain on? That line could represent a pocket pair, which obviously has you beat, even with something as strong as a set, although you'd expect him to flat with small pairs rather than 3-bet. Aside from random gutshots, it is pretty hard to put you on a hand that has outs versus his set, and if he simply has an overpair like TT or JJ, he'd potentially just let you bluff with all of your missed overcards.

With the action going check-check on the flop, it is somewhat harder to evaluate where you are at on later streets, so Ace-high could certainly be good---especially your ace high which beats a lot of other Ace-highs. So, I would be tempted to peel the turn with AQ.

However, the river is a little different. If he is betting the river with the intention of getting called, he is looking to get called by Ace-high a lot. Your hand range is a little bit more well-defined than his in this hand as a weak made hand or a bluff catcher. At this point, given your hand should look like what it is to him, the fact that he continues to bet the river should scare you a little bit. Where your odds of being best on the turn are pretty decent, I think they go down considerably on the river. And it has little to do with the fact that he could have spiked a nine---it has more to do with what both of your hand ranges look like and the fact that he is betting the final two streets into you in a 3-bet pot.

So folding the river might be the play. However, it is 50NL, and crazy lines are taken for often times no apparent reason. You do have a bluff catcher, and if you want to call for information against a potentially ******ed opponent who you might have beat, it cannot be all that bad.
I agree with most of this but it really doesn't get to the necessity of giving villain a hand range. You hint at the idea that he could have overpairs, which given OPs read, is very very unlikely. You also say he could be betting for value with something other than a 9, and (once again given OPs read) I find this really really unlikely. That said, i still don't like a call, because of his bet sizing and the fact that he was willing to fire this river against our perceived range of bluff-catchers, but I do think that the vast majority of his value betting range here is 9x.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 03:45 PM
I like your line with your reads.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreamlineR
he looks like he's weak. if he's not a station i like to shove. but folding is ok too
A) if hes trying to look weak its because hes strong.
B) if he knows he looks weak he will expect us to bluff shove.
C) if we bluff shove what are we repping?
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-11-2009 , 08:23 PM
Easy river fold
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote
02-12-2009 , 04:27 AM
I like a flop bet.
50nl - 3-bet pot/river decision Quote

      
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