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NL25 Zoom Value overbet? NL25 Zoom Value overbet?

02-23-2018 , 09:16 AM
Villian is an unknown at zoom

Is this a good spot to overbet for value? Villian seems very Qx heavy, especially since he snapcalled extremely quick on flop and turn. My range seems very polarized when all the Draws brick and 9x,TT,JJ often fold to a reasonably big riverbet anyway. I think the average player will get very sticky w Qx when the draws miss so I decided to ship it here





    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37931696

    Hero (BTN): $33.70 (134.8 bb)
    SB: $25 (100 bb)
    BB: $19.85 (79.4 bb)
    UTG: $27.05 (108.2 bb)
    MP: $45.55 (182.2 bb)
    CO: $37.02 (148.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 9
    2 folds, CO raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, CO calls $1

    Flop: ($3.35) 4 Q 9 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $1.60, CO calls $1.60

    Turn: ($6.55) 6 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $5, CO calls $5

    River: ($16.55) 2 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $25.60 and is all-in, CO folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $16.55 pot ($0.74 rake)
    Final Board: 4 Q 9 6 2
    Hero mucked 9 9 and won $15.81 ($7.71 net)
    CO mucked and lost (-$8.10 net)



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    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 09:17 AM
    I 3 bet Pre since a minopen in the cutoff seemed like a weaker player so I wanted to have a linear range
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 09:35 AM
    You have effectively the nuts and bet / bet / bet, it’s hard to criticise.

    Pre is fine
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 10:29 AM
    unblocking top pair combinations
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 10:32 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andy Art
    I 3 bet Pre since a minopen in the cutoff seemed like a weaker player so I wanted to have a linear range
    Why would you make this assumption? Do you know a lot about the regs in your pool? 2.5x EP/MP and 2x CO/BTN isn’t a terribly uncommon strategy.

    I think 3bet pre is fine against most villains facing that sizing. Postflop is probably fine, but I prefer a turn over bet.
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 11:11 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
    unblocking top pair combinations
    Not sure I follow?
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 11:12 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by whitemares
    Why would you make this assumption? Do you know a lot about the regs in your pool? 2.5x EP/MP and 2x CO/BTN isn’t a terribly uncommon strategy.

    I think 3bet pre is fine against most villains facing that sizing. Postflop is probably fine, but I prefer a turn over bet.
    Yeah I was probably to quick with that assumption, especially since I myself minopen the CO regularly. Thanks for pointing that out. Do you think it is telling however if villian uses this sizing MP or UTG?

    And can you elaborate on the suggested turn overbet?
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 12:01 PM
    as in having 99 here makes it more likely he holds Qx than if we had AA, KK or Qx. If theres a combo to ob, its this one.
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 12:03 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
    as in having 99 here makes it more likely he holds Qx than if we had AA, KK or Qx. If theres a combo to ob, its this one.
    Thanks that makes sense!
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 12:21 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
    as in having 99 here makes it more likely he holds Qx than if we had AA, KK or Qx. If theres a combo to ob, its this one.
    So if we want to overbet as a bluff, we look for hands with an A and K as blockers right?
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 12:44 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andy Art
    So if we want to overbet as a bluff, we look for hands with an A and K as blockers right?
    AK would indeed be the best bluff candidate. Not using the AhKx combinations though.
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 05:10 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
    AK would indeed be the best bluff candidate. Not using the AhKx combinations though.
    Im not sure I want to bet AhKh on the flop since it has good showdownvalue and I want some NFD in my Xflop range. So maybe AhJh is a good candidate to take the overbetline? the J also blocks QJ
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 05:11 PM
    Not sure I want to bet any AK when im IP and can just X back... Is this a mistake?
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 07:51 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andy Art
    Yeah I was probably to quick with that assumption, especially since I myself minopen the CO regularly. Thanks for pointing that out. Do you think it is telling however if villian uses this sizing MP or UTG?
    Not necessarily, since Doug Polk advocates opening 2x at all positions at the micros.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andy Art
    And can you elaborate on the suggested turn overbet?
    I think that a lot of players don't defend against them properly. They'll either underdefend, or overdefend by calling (which is great when you're bluffing). This is probably the only value hand I would do it with, along with some of the higher equity draws.

    I haven't CREVed this spot or anything though.
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-23-2018 , 09:31 PM
    The best play is exactly like you played it. Villian is capped although he can have sets, but you have QQ+. A normal sized bet otr is less likely to fold out his Qx, you want to bet big with nuts so overbetting makes a lot of sense in this spot
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-24-2018 , 01:04 AM
    nh,

    my advice is to focus on different spots, though, andy. Most of the hands you're posting and questions you have are when you have tptk+
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote
    02-24-2018 , 01:34 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Andy Art
    Im not sure I want to bet AhKh on the flop since it has good showdownvalue and I want some NFD in my Xflop range. So maybe AhJh is a good candidate to take the overbetline? the J also blocks QJ
    I originally assumed AK would be the hand to triple off with here, but there are soooo many straight draws on this board that I'm not sure AK makes it in the double barrel range. if you bet turn with AK you bet "blank" rivers with it (or flush rivers if you have the blocker) most of the time - perhaps checking sometimes if you have the Ah and the flush missed for example. but, nah, I do think AK makes it into the double (and consequently triple) barrel range.
    your only turn betsize here is supposed to be pretty large. more in the realm of, idk, 1.1x pot? so you have to bet a bit more polarized when you use that large of a size. betting all of your straight draws for that size would be pretty bad because it would make it extremely hard for you to play on a plethora of rivers (anything that completes a draw crushes your range), plus it makes you very susceptible to being checkraised all-in because your bet/fold frequency will be so high. also when you bet more polarized on the turn, that means you have plenty of reasonably strong hands that make it into a bxb range - like KQ/QJ. those needs to be balanced out by bluffs, so you can't just bet all of your non-sd bluffs on the turn. also consider that a lot of people flat the random-ass 45 through KJ combos that all here preflop instead of 3bet, so your bluffing range doesn't even contain all the straight draw combos to begin with. you have to add in a hand like AKo for the larger size I reckon. maybe 98/97 would be good too actually.

    in practice at these stakes I would stroooongly hesitate to do that though, for the same reason that I think overbetting with 99 here is clearly good.
    people just aren't going to be folding a queen to bet/bet/overbet here, which you very clearly need them to do. you need them to fold some combos of KQ here probably, and I don't think that is happening very much, let alone QJ/QT. I would play a bit more exploitively and bet hands that have more nutted/drawy value and check anything with sd value. you are unlikely to be heavily exploited for not checking back draws at these stakes anyway.

    Last edited by flimpy; 02-24-2018 at 01:41 AM.
    NL25 Zoom Value overbet? Quote

          
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