UTG1 - 40/32 over 25 hands
SB - 34/19 agg 2.3 CC 19 over 369 hands

Is it clear fold or hero might get some value by getting it in in the long run?

SB: $6.56 (131.2 bb)
BB: $5.37 (107.4 bb)
UTG+1: $4.30 (86 bb)
UTG+2: $3.61 (72.2 bb)
MP1: $7.49 (149.8 bb)
MP2: $14.37 (287.4 bb)
MP3: $4.57 (91.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $15.65 (313 bb)
BTN: $7.99 (159.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q A
UTG+1 raises to $0.10, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN folds, SB calls $0.38, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.34) 8 Q 7 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $6.15, UTG+1 calls $3.39 and is all-in

Hero?

Easy F. Two Vs have shown a lot of interest in this pot and you only have TPTK.

You are probably right but don't the pot odds force us to at least think about calling? The price is enticing.

Yes, we should construct ranges for the 2 players given their actions, run our equity versus both of those ranges and then compare that to the pot odds being offered on the call.

I've given SB two pair and the two lower sets as well as AK and AJ of spades

I've given UTG+1 a lot of flush draws plus AQ and KQ since he looks fishier

9%....I'll skip the pot odds bit

So yeah as JFTIII said....easy fold

You are giving FISH alot more credit than you should.

Alot of QX, alot of 8X and alot of 7X might be in their range and they are just being dumb. You have to be careful, its the second time I read a post where you construct ranges in a way that provides confirmation bias towards fold. I think you probably have a tendency to overfold.

Considering we are against two fish, I have top pair top kicker blocking top boat which would do this, and blocking a trapped ace. Considering we don't block the ace of spade I would shrug call and expect to lose a fair amount of time.


UTG+1 minraise range (all suited 2 gapers and maybe 3gapers and less):

XXss, XXcc, XXhh,XXdd,22+

UTG+1 call range (all suited 2 gapers and maybe 3gapers and less)

XXss, XXcc, XXhh, XXd,22+

BB call range same as UTG+1

Narrow down fish range to all value and all spade combos in equilab, and all QXs that hit (lets not even add the 7's or 8's for argument sake, which I have seen frequently at fish anywhere from 100NL to 500NL), and come back with equity numbers. Look how much of a call it is.

Well yes, if you remove the hands that are crushing us then of course it will be a call.

Include the hands that crush us but don’t remove the gands we crush.


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thank you folks.

all your thoughts are useful and worth considering

basically the thread is focused on handling fish at tables. I am faced with lots of similar spots (eg fish aggression on the mono flop etc.) in my sessions. Yes, their ranges are wide and we can expect a bunch of weird hands from them but tbh most of the time I got smoked against fish aggression in such spots. So actually the question is whether it's worth standing up to fish every time they show aggression on wet boards with hands like TPTK or just give up and wait for a better opportunity. Is it + or - EV in the long run?

Not really standing up. See it as value when calling with hands that don’t block what they may be shoving and that hold good value against their range.

It really depends on the fish, but I think in this specific instance call is +EV.


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A bunch of that really depends on the fish, but, in this hand, I'm not going to bet on the fact that both fish are completely out of line. This is a lot tougher choice, if we only have the UTG+1 in the hand and he shoves the R.

You aren’t loving the situation. You gota think about it but it has to be a call.


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While I agree we only need to win 1/4 of the time, I don't think we are getting good odds. We are only break even if both the fish get out of line 50% of the time -- so both would be out of line at the same time 25% of the time -- and I don't think they are that bad.

So our answer is never stackoff TPTK here? Technically TPTK is a better call than KK/AA since we block QQ. Are we folding those?

Just trying to figure out what our call range would be.


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Most cases fish will call with 8x or hands which don't beat us. When we get raised in a spot like that, most cases are at least 2 pair in low stakes.

I'm with Alex, we're looking at at least two pair and I am folding AA and KK here.

Lol I’m mot in 100NL.


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You've mentioned those stakes a few times now. What site is this? Seems like a good one if you're getting paid off with TPTK versus multiple players stack off ranges.

I've spent the past month paying off fish at 16nl 6max on Pokerstars when they shove and it's Never worse than top pair.

Depends on the fish. Definitely see alot of fish jam TPGK often enough for this to be profitable. Basically any top pair and any draw will result in a jam from some of the fishes in these spots.

But yeah its a good site, I’m not expecting 5NL to be much better though.


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