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Spewing against sets Spewing against sets

08-02-2019 , 11:34 AM
As somebody who is new to the game, my biggest issue is not feeling out sets from other players.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 176 BB (VPIP: 8.43, PFR: 4.52, 3Bet Preflop: 1.56, Hands: 178)
SB: 107.5 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
BB: 302.5 BB (VPIP: 21.60, PFR: 13.48, 3Bet Preflop: 6.44, Hands: 647)
UTG: 68 BB (VPIP: 15.69, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 104)
Hero (UTG+1): 106 BB
MP: 143 BB (VPIP: 21.69, PFR: 14.16, 3Bet Preflop: 5.14, Hands: 882)
MP+1: 39 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 18)
MP+2: 93.5 BB (VPIP: 11.61, PFR: 6.00, 3Bet Preflop: 3.00, Hands: 521)
CO: 129.5 BB (VPIP: 27.55, PFR: 7.53, 3Bet Preflop: 3.54, Hands: 560)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, MP calls 4 BB, fold, MP+2 calls 4 BB, CO calls 4 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (17.5 BB, 4 players) 5 4 K
Hero bets 17.5 BB, MP calls 17.5 BB, fold, CO raises to 70 BB, Hero raises to 102 BB and is all-in, MP raises to 139 BB and is all-in, CO calls 55.5 BB and is all-in

Turn: (370.5 BB, 3 players) 9

River: (370.5 BB, 3 players) T

Hero shows A A (One Pair, Aces)

Main Pot [323.5 BB]: (Pre 65%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

MP shows 7 8 (High Card, King)

Main Pot [323.5 BB]: (Pre 19%, Flop 29%, Turn 21%)
Side Pot#1 [47 BB]: (Pre 51%, Flop 31%, Turn 21%)

CO shows 5 5 (Three of a Kind, Fives)

Main Pot [323.5 BB]: (Pre 16%, Flop 61%, Turn 74%)
Side Pot#1 [47 BB]: (Pre 49%, Flop 69%, Turn 79%)

CO wins 352 BB

6 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

I had put villain on maybe AKd or KXd, but in hindsight it seems obvious that he would only raise with the nuts given his AF of 1. Exactly how bad was this shove on my end? Unforgivable, or just too thin value to justify?
Spewing against sets Quote
08-02-2019 , 12:35 PM
Another example where I was on the other side and lost.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 81 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 11.67, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 61)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.90, PFR: 16.92, 3Bet Preflop: 2.30, Hands: 202)
MP+1: 115 BB (VPIP: 21.21, PFR: 15.09, 3Bet Preflop: 6.64, Hands: 1,482)
MP+2: 129.5 BB (VPIP: 24.40, PFR: 7.02, 3Bet Preflop: 2.48, Hands: 549)
CO: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 29.09, PFR: 16.46, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 166)
BTN: 117 BB (VPIP: 23.71, PFR: 19.76, 3Bet Preflop: 19.72, Hands: 330)
SB: 146 BB (VPIP: 14.83, PFR: 10.67, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 1,089)
BB: 144.5 BB (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 28.57, Hands: 30)
Hero (UTG): 113.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

Hero raises to 4 BB, UTG+1 raises to 13.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, CO calls 13.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 9.5 BB

Flop: (42 BB, 3 players) A 8 T
Hero bets 42 BB, UTG+1 calls 42 BB, CO calls 42 BB

Turn: (168 BB, 3 players) 4
Hero bets 58 BB and is all-in, UTG+1 calls 25.5 BB and is all-in, CO calls 43 BB and is all-in

River: (279.5 BB, 3 players) 3

UTG+1 shows A A (Three of a Kind, Aces)

Main Pot [244.5 BB]: (Pre 68%, Flop 78%, Turn 88%)

CO shows Q K (High Card, Ace)

Main Pot [244.5 BB]: (Pre 15%, Flop 18%, Turn 10%)
Side Pot#1 [35 BB]: (Pre 48%, Flop 18%, Turn 10%)

Hero shows T T (Three of a Kind, Tens)

Main Pot [244.5 BB]: (Pre 17%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)
Side Pot#1 [35 BB]: (Pre 52%, Flop 83%, Turn 90%)

UTG+1 wins 232.5 BB
Hero wins 33.5 BB

4 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

I really do think I played this correctly. Villain could call with AK, AT, A8, and only AA would beat me. Thoughts?
Spewing against sets Quote
08-02-2019 , 01:28 PM
I'm fairly new to competitive poker as well, so take my thoughts for what they're worth...

Hand 2 is just a cooler, they will be showing up with worse hands much more of the time (exhibit A is CO). The only thing I would do differently is on the flop, it's standard to check it over to the preflop aggressor (UTG+1), but personally I would be looking to get a check/raise in, so this wouldn't have changed the results.

Hand 1 is much closer. CO is probably 3 betting AK preflop, and given how passive they are, I don't really see them raising with a weaker top pair or a diamond draw. This might feel tough to bet/fold with aces, but I think it's the correct play against this particular player. (Against a more aggressive player and those who over play their top pair weak kicker, I think you just have to call it off and if they have better, so be it.)
Spewing against sets Quote
08-02-2019 , 04:26 PM
Bet 1/3 pot on that flop OOP.

AP snap fold to the raise of your pot-sized bet and CO's shove. You're hand is basically never good after this action, and even if it was the villains would likely have high equity hands.
Spewing against sets Quote
08-02-2019 , 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldzMine
Bet 1/3 pot on that flop OOP.

AP snap fold to the raise of your pot-sized bet and CO's shove. You're hand is basically never good after this action, and even if it was the villains would likely have high equity hands.
Good point on the bet sizing. That would've saved me a lot of trouble.
Spewing against sets Quote
08-05-2019 , 07:44 PM
You can't let people play you like a slot machine. It's typically 10:1 when drawing to a set and I always like to pad on the side of caution so maybe 7 or 8 to 1 is the max I will lay when I think my opponent has one. Anything more and you got a bad case of reverse implied odds. And if you fold aces, they don't know you have aces. In fact, if its a live game you can make a snug fold and ask them what did you think I had to make them feel foolish.
Spewing against sets Quote
09-09-2019 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellPoker
You can't let people play you like a slot machine. It's typically 10:1 when drawing to a set and I always like to pad on the side of caution so maybe 7 or 8 to 1 is the max I will lay when I think my opponent has one. Anything more and you got a bad case of reverse implied odds. And if you fold aces, they don't know you have aces. In fact, if its a live game you can make a snug fold and ask them what did you think I had to make them feel foolish.

Please explain what you mean by 7/8-1 is the max you'll lay......
Spewing against sets Quote
09-10-2019 , 12:47 AM
Hand 1, a bet and a call a reg, and then a raise. You better have more than one pair. That was an easy fold.

Hand 2 was just a std. kick the pregnant cat cooler.
Spewing against sets Quote

      
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