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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-21-2020, 03:18 PM   #1
KennyofCoins
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River Call with TP

PokerStars - $0.16 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: $16.00
MP: $16.00
MP+1: $16.51
MP+2: $17.45
CO: $10.44
BTN: $22.29
SB: $21.03
BB: $16.50
Hero (UTG): $19.89

SB posts SB $0.08, BB posts BB $0.16

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.24) Hero has K A

Hero raises to $0.56, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.56, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($1.36, 2 players) 9 K 4
Hero bets $0.86, CO calls $0.86

Turn: ($3.08, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $1.94, CO calls $1.94

River: ($6.96, 2 players) T
Hero checks, CO bets $6.65, Hero ??

Villain is 45/25 after only 20 hands no reads

called two streets on dry board and bets on pots on river?? maybe should block bet river? easy call?
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:38 AM   #2
itsatarp
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Re: River Call with TP

Yeah, I think block-bet size river. You can still get value from KQ and KJ.

Check/call makes no sense to me. There were few draws to begin with and all of those few str8 draws got there with the exception of JT. Not enough whiffed draws to check with the intention of inducing.

I also think you cannot make a PSB. Too many hands we could be behind, as we're not 100% sure how big of a donk he is. (We have the stack size tell, but VPIP/PFR are still pretty unreliable after just two orbits.)

We're behind a few 2P, a few str8 (QJs and, if in his PF calling range, 87s), and possibly a few sets (if he's smart enough to flat once/twice with those).

So again, we are looking for thin value vs. KQ/KJ. I'd make a small bet, maybe 1/3 pot.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:23 PM   #3
KennyofCoins
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Re: River Call with TP

thx i think i should have block there and fold to raise
but even if I block bet villain only has 25bbs left.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:38 PM   #4
itsatarp
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Re: River Call with TP

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyofCoins View Post
thx i think i should have block there and fold to raise
but even if I block bet villain only has 25bbs left.
I totally agree with your point. I'd be curious to hear other opinions on the river line.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:55 PM   #5
FazendeiroBH
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Re: River Call with TP

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyofCoins View Post
thx i think i should have block there and fold to raise
but even if I block bet villain only has 25bbs left.
Why not block block block the 3 streets and keep a wider calling range and a small pot? Like, if you´re not playing for stacks vs the fish with tptk on that dry board, then why bet that big on the flop and turn in the first place? Or maybe pot control turn and see what he does ip?
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:16 PM   #6
alexbrasile
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Re: River Call with TP

I really didn't understand your check otr! Villain is calling with KJ and KQ and there are 24 combinations you beat and you're beaten by just 6! I don't believe he would call two big barrels with QJ!
I'd have bet otr as well! If he had raised, I defenitely know where I'd be standing!
Another key point is the fact he hasn't got even 70 BB, regs generally play full stack!

Last edited by alexbrasile; 05-22-2020 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:21 AM   #7
KennyofCoins
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Re: River Call with TP

i dont necessarily disagree with bock bet on the river, but given his chip stack you are kind of forced to call the remainder?
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:20 AM   #8
itsatarp
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Re: River Call with TP

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexbrasile View Post
I really didn't understand your check otr! Villain is calling with KJ and KQ and there are 24 combinations you beat and you're beaten by just 6!
Two K are already accounted for, so just 2 K remain in the deck. That makes for 2 x 4 = 8 combos of KQ and another 8 combos of KJ.

We are beaten by 6 combos of KT and some other strong hands. Sure, you have to discount some of these. But the board is so static, I wouldn't be shocked if villain called twice with a hand such as TT (which then gets there OTR). I wouldn't be shocked if the villain slow-played flopped or turned sets some of the time. Sure, he will get excited with those the majority of times and raise turn or whatever. But again, super-dry and disconnected board, he may slow-play them some fraction of the time.

Also, on this board, I wouldn't be shocked if he floats the flop with 98s with BD FD (3 combos). If he does so, he will call the turn and will get there OTR. Sure, you can discount him floating 98s. Say, he only floats it 50% of the time. That still leaves you with 1,5 combos of nuts OTR. The same sort of discounted calculation can be made for sets. And, with stronger discounts, for gutshots.

So I think we have thin value only. We beat KQ/KJ, are beaten by KT, and by a number of 2P+ hands.

We don't really know enough about villain to assign him worse Kx into his preflop calling range. We just got 20 hands and he's facing an UTG open pre.

Thus, I would assume OTR, we can really only value-bet KQ/KJ and can't count on getting value from worse Kings as well.

So that leaves you with the 16 combos we beat and the 6 + X combos that beat us. My argument is that X is just slightly smaller than 10 so this is thin value.

Finally, my whole argument rests on the assumption that villain can get to the river with a few nutted hands.

So, if we make a small bet and he raises, we have to fold. We are obv making a highly-exploitable play when making a small bet. Because we fold despite getting a gazillion to one odds. But micro-donks don't bluff-raise the river, especially not when there's hardly any draw that whiffed.

Obv, if you're optimistic about him calling with all his Kx 100% of the time and think the X combos 2P+ is a sufficiently small number, then by all means shove. It's way better than check-calling IMO.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:25 AM   #9
itsatarp
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Re: River Call with TP

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyofCoins View Post
i dont necessarily disagree with bock bet on the river, but given his chip stack you are kind of forced to call the remainder?
As discussed above, IMO the answer is no.

It's of course highly exploitable not to call it off. But as I believe villain can sometimes beat you and will only raise river when he beats you, it would be block-bet/fold. Obv, the alternative is to shove.
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