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Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Paying Off + Barreling Too Much?

05-20-2020 , 02:53 AM
Long time lurker here, first time poster. After looking at around 9k hands, I've noticed my biggest leaks seem to come from paying off river too wide or barreling too much.

With the AK hand, can I get away from this by choosing a smaller bet sizing?

With the KJ hand, should it have been a fold pre?


Paying Off River against 40/10 HUD
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 204.32 BB
MP: 118.92 BB
Hero (CO): 151.08 BB
BTN: 55.48 BB
SB: 75.48 BB
BB: 68.04 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K J

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) BB has A A

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 5 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.4 BB, 2 players) 8 K 2
BB bets 4.96 BB, Hero calls 4.96 BB

Turn: (20.32 BB, 2 players) T
BB bets 9.68 BB, Hero calls 9.68 BB

River: (39.68 BB, 2 players) 7
BB bets 18.88 BB, Hero calls 18.88 BB

BB shows A A (One Pair, Aces)

BB wins 73.6 BB

Given a 3Bet by him, maybe KJ should have been a fold pre here?

Barreling with AK against 25/15 HUD Stats
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 198.8 BB
MP: 46.96 BB
CO: 77.04 BB
BTN: 240.48 BB
SB: 203.92 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) BB has 9 A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K A

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) 4 9 4
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 3.28 BB, fold, BB calls 3.28 BB

Turn: (15.56 BB, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero bets 7.4 BB, BB calls 7.4 BB

River: (30.36 BB, 2 players) 6
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows 9 A (Two Pair, Nines and Fours)

BB wins 28.88 BB

When playing AK like this, I thought I was betting for value against small pairs + club draws but maybe the bet sizing is too large?
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 02:57 AM
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 136.12 BB
BTN: 89.36 BB
SB: 316.28 BB
BB: 50 BB
UTG: 58.68 BB
Hero (MP): 116.48 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) CO has Q A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9 T

fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, CO calls 5 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (11.4 BB, 2 players) J 6 Q
Hero bets 5.44 BB, CO calls 5.44 BB

Turn: (22.28 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 15.92 BB, CO calls 15.92 BB

River: (54.12 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, CO checks

CO shows Q A (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 69%, Turn 86%)
CO wins 51.44 BB


This is another one where I feel like I have "some" equity on the flop and just start mindlessly betting.
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 04:45 AM
Please edit out results.

You also might wanna ask a mod to move the question to the correct subforum (this forum is for full ring, not 6max).
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psp219

Given a 3Bet by him, maybe KJ should have been a fold pre here?
Look at it the other way. You hit top pair in a 3bet pot and only lost 40BB? You can't look at that as a terrible result - how do you think the opponent feels about not managing to get stacks in? You're going to lose some money here. Only thing is that when a player who you've already identified as passive comes out with aggression on every street, that should set alarm bells ringing.
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psp219
Paying Off River against 40/10 HUD
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 204.32 BB
MP: 118.92 BB
Hero (CO): 151.08 BB
BTN: 55.48 BB
SB: 75.48 BB
BB: 68.04 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K J

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) BB has A A

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 5 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.4 BB, 2 players) 8 K 2
BB bets 4.96 BB, Hero calls 4.96 BB

Turn: (20.32 BB, 2 players) T
BB bets 9.68 BB, Hero calls 9.68 BB

River: (39.68 BB, 2 players) 7
BB bets 18.88 BB, Hero calls 18.88 BB

BB shows A A (One Pair, Aces)

BB wins 73.6 BB
I'm not folding pre-flop when I'm in position to a min 3-bet against a fish.

I'm folding the river. I doubt he's triple barrelling with any hand you beat.

I'm not thrilled about calling the turn but I think there are still some hands that are plausibly in his range such as AQ, AJ, FD's, QQ/JJ etc and we probably have live outs. If he bet closer to pot on turn, I find a fold.

A min 3-bet from a weak passive player generally = nuts.
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psp219
Barreling with AK against 25/15 HUD Stats
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 198.8 BB
MP: 46.96 BB
CO: 77.04 BB
BTN: 240.48 BB
SB: 203.92 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) BB has 9 A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K A

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) 4 9 4
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 3.28 BB, fold, BB calls 3.28 BB

Turn: (15.56 BB, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero bets 7.4 BB, BB calls 7.4 BB

River: (30.36 BB, 2 players) 6
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows 9 A (Two Pair, Nines and Fours)

BB wins 28.88 BB

When playing AK like this, I thought I was betting for value against small pairs + club draws but maybe the bet sizing is too large?
PF & Flop play is fine.

Turn is okay. I will mix it up between betting and checking behind dependent upon the player. Their WTSD and Fold Cbet stats are helpful here in determining whether to fire. You have the Kc so it is less likely he has FD's in his range.

I would check behind the river, as you did.

Ideally, you want to be putting pressure on him when cards >9 hit the turn & river.
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psp219
Ignition - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 136.12 BB
BTN: 89.36 BB
SB: 316.28 BB
BB: 50 BB
UTG: 58.68 BB
Hero (MP): 116.48 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) CO has Q A

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9 T

fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, CO calls 5 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (11.4 BB, 2 players) J 6 Q
Hero bets 5.44 BB, CO calls 5.44 BB

Turn: (22.28 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 15.92 BB, CO calls 15.92 BB

River: (54.12 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, CO checks

CO shows Q A (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 69%, Turn 86%)
CO wins 51.44 BB


This is another one where I feel like I have "some" equity on the flop and just start mindlessly betting.
Why the 5x raise pre-flop? I'm generally making it 3x pre-flop unless there are fish around that I want to isolate more or get more EV from.

I think you played it fine. It looks like you maybe are being too results orientated because you lost the hand? You aren't going to make the perfect play on every hand. On this occasion, you ran into the top of villain's range.
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote
05-20-2020 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadFourZ
Why the 5x raise pre-flop?
I've noticed quite a few larger-than-average open raises in recent weeks - live players???
Paying Off + Barreling Too Much? Quote

      
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