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Old 10-14-2008, 02:44 PM   #626
Landvogt
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hi,

im new to cashgame (played only SNG's) an finished my first 14k hands (NL25/NL50).

What do you think about my stats in general?

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Many thanks...

Last edited by Landvogt; 10-14-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:46 AM   #627
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Melchor View Post
here's since 9/1................ been playing bad, coolered and probably some tilt in there too, I feel everytime I cbet I get raised, so I just have to fold, I did try to change my game a little and improving my AF, but that didnt went well.....
[IMG][/IMG]

stats
[IMG][/IMG]



positions

[IMG][/IMG]


If there's something I can get let me know, any help or input I can get from anyone is much appreciated..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
Don - My VPIP is the same as your but my VPIP from the hijack is 16%, CO is 20% and BTN is 23%. At NL 50 you should be stealing more. About 35%+ would be good. You'll make most of your money from Late position.

Your flop AF seems very low, my turn AF is higher then your flop for example. Your probaly calling in spots where you should be raising which will give you some FE and help take a pots down.

AF a trickey beast to figure out though, your river one is alot higher then mine but that could be because your are folding in spots where a call might be best, or betting in spots where you wont get much value.
Don:

I agree with everything Teddie said. In addition:

You are getting slaughtered in non-showdown pots. There are two clear indicators that this is the major problem:

1. Your W$WSF% is extremely low at 34%
2. Your red line on your graph.

There are a lot of reasons why this could be happening. Normally this is mostly a blind play problem, but that is not the case for you--your blind play looks pretty good (but keep working on it, of course).

It's not really possible to tell from your stats what the problem is. Here are some areas to check in PT3:

1. 3 bet pots. Filter for pots where you are the preflop raiser and you are facing a 3 bet. This is a tough spot to be in and can cause non-showdown losses in big chunks. I don't know what is a "normal" win or loss rate per se, but common sense tells us that if you are losing more per hand than your average preflop raise, then you are leaking post-flop in 3 bet pots., and would be better off folding all of the non-premium hands you are currently seeing a flop with. So that is one bench mark you can look for.

2. 3 bet pots that saw a flop. Once you have looked at the basic results above, filter for the hands that saw a flop and look at your performance. This sample should be small enough that you can sort it by amount lost and study each hand individually. You are not looking for the big losses, necessarily--those are the coolers most likely--you are studying all of those $7 losses in the middle where you called, the villain bet and you folded. What starting hands do you see there? Did you fail to use position to make a play for the pot even if you missed? Did you make a play for the pot too often and change a bunch of $7 losses into $17 losses?

3. Your 3 bets. Your win rate in pots you 3 bet should be obscene. Check to make sure it is high--we are talking several hundred ptbb/100 hands. If it is not in the hundreds, you are leaking in 3 bet pots, most likely by playing fit or fold.


4. Button play. Your button win rate is a tiny bit on the low side. this is not a major leak for you, but go back over the hands you raised otb and look at your win rate. look at your continuation bet frequency, look for spots where you bet with air and were called. Try to note any patterns in flop texture you see, so you can avoid c-betting bad flop types in the future. I am pretty sure, for example, that villains love to defend their blinds at $50 with ragged aces. Also, look at the flip side; make sure you are c-betting enough, and not just playing fit or fold when you are on a steal. The goal here is to shave off a few c-bets from your losses and add a few wins that you are currently giving up on, in order to get your button win rate up to about .15ptbb/hand. When you combine winning a higher percentage, losing less on the losers, and playing more hands on the button as Teddie suggested, a win rate of .20 is definitely attainable.

5. Cut off play. Same as above. Play the cut off exactly like the button except when you have a solid TAg to your immediate left (and in that case you should normally leave the table).

6. Cold calling. Filter for the hands where you cold called a preflop raise. A small positive win rate is standard. If you are losing money in pots you called, you are leaking.

7. Going too far with marginal hands. Filter for hands that do not go to showdown in which you call a bet on the flop, turn or both. Since we are normally betting our good hands and good draws, this is a very effective filter to find our marginal hands that we are uncomfortable with. You are not looking for a win rate here, you are looking at the individual hands to see what you are doing. Are you only calling with good odds (express or implied)? Are you floating villains with low c-bet percentages? Are you trying too hard to get weak pair hands to showdown against multiple streets of aggression? Other than hands you slow played, EVERY ONE of these hands is a potential leak, in which you should have folded preflop, or to a post flop bet.

Those are about the only spots I can think of at the moment that might be causing you to lose too much postflop.

I hope you find the leaks. PM or AIM me while you are looking if you have any questions.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:58 AM   #628
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landvogt View Post
Hi,

im new to cashgame (played only SNG's) an finished my first 14k hands (NL25/NL50).

What do you think about my stats in general?

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Many thanks...
You have a bunch of small leaks, but no big ones except the big blind, and this could just be a sample size issue. This is true for pretty much everything i say--your sample size is on the low side to be analyzing stats.

Your big blind loss rate is horrific. You are taking double the losses in the BB you ought to be taking.

You are too passive preflop; you should be raising a higher proportion of the pots you enter.

your button win rate is far too low. You should check to make sure you are not doing crazy aggro things otb because you think you are entitled to the pot because it's your button (don't laugh, I do this ALL the time).

bet more, call less. your aggression factor is too low.

you are limping and calling a lot in EP--keep an eye on this as your sample size approaches 40,000; I doubt it will remain a profitable strategy, but it might.

You're probably running pretty hot in this sample--enjoy it while it lasts and work on tweaking your game.

Good luck.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:05 AM   #629
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by bta15 View Post
I am relatively new to online cash games. For the past 2.5 years I have been playing tournaments and SNG's religiously and didn't really have to much luck. I decided I was going to move to cash and by pokertracker. I have been doing very well compared to tourneys. I have tracked 5500 hands over the past month and have been winning rate of 8.65 BB/100 at 0.05/0.10.

My question is when should I move up? Should I keep playing until I get to 10k hands and re-evaluate the situation. I would like to grind my online bankroll up but playing 10NL is basically inconsequential to my financial situation. Should I throw a couple hundred more into my online account and try 25NL for a while.

I am posting some of my pokertrackers stats. I don't think I value position as much as I should. I think I also have been running pretty good, probably a little above average.

Your stats look pretty solid. Your sample size is just way too small to work with, so i won't go into the details.

You might try to reduce the limping in EP and raise more in LP, changing your stats to, say, 22/17 or so, but basically everything looks good.

I can't really advise you whether to move up or whether to put more money online--that is a personal financial decision.

But if you are not a ridiculous luck box in this sample your stats seem to indicate the ability to beat $25.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:50 AM   #630
Don Melchor
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
Don:

I agree with everything Teddie said. In addition:

You are getting slaughtered in non-showdown pots. There are two clear indicators that this is the major problem:

1. Your W$WSF% is extremely low at 34%
2. Your red line on your graph.

There are a lot of reasons why this could be happening. Normally this is mostly a blind play problem, but that is not the case for you--your blind play looks pretty good (but keep working on it, of course).

It's not really possible to tell from your stats what the problem is. Here are some areas to check in PT3:

1. 3 bet pots. Filter for pots where you are the preflop raiser and you are facing a 3 bet. This is a tough spot to be in and can cause non-showdown losses in big chunks. I don't know what is a "normal" win or loss rate per se, but common sense tells us that if you are losing more per hand than your average preflop raise, then you are leaking post-flop in 3 bet pots., and would be better off folding all of the non-premium hands you are currently seeing a flop with. So that is one bench mark you can look for.

2. 3 bet pots that saw a flop. Once you have looked at the basic results above, filter for the hands that saw a flop and look at your performance. This sample should be small enough that you can sort it by amount lost and study each hand individually. You are not looking for the big losses, necessarily--those are the coolers most likely--you are studying all of those $7 losses in the middle where you called, the villain bet and you folded. What starting hands do you see there? Did you fail to use position to make a play for the pot even if you missed? Did you make a play for the pot too often and change a bunch of $7 losses into $17 losses?

3. Your 3 bets. Your win rate in pots you 3 bet should be obscene. Check to make sure it is high--we are talking several hundred ptbb/100 hands. If it is not in the hundreds, you are leaking in 3 bet pots, most likely by playing fit or fold.


4. Button play. Your button win rate is a tiny bit on the low side. this is not a major leak for you, but go back over the hands you raised otb and look at your win rate. look at your continuation bet frequency, look for spots where you bet with air and were called. Try to note any patterns in flop texture you see, so you can avoid c-betting bad flop types in the future. I am pretty sure, for example, that villains love to defend their blinds at $50 with ragged aces. Also, look at the flip side; make sure you are c-betting enough, and not just playing fit or fold when you are on a steal. The goal here is to shave off a few c-bets from your losses and add a few wins that you are currently giving up on, in order to get your button win rate up to about .15ptbb/hand. When you combine winning a higher percentage, losing less on the losers, and playing more hands on the button as Teddie suggested, a win rate of .20 is definitely attainable.

5. Cut off play. Same as above. Play the cut off exactly like the button except when you have a solid TAg to your immediate left (and in that case you should normally leave the table).

6. Cold calling. Filter for the hands where you cold called a preflop raise. A small positive win rate is standard. If you are losing money in pots you called, you are leaking.

7. Going too far with marginal hands. Filter for hands that do not go to showdown in which you call a bet on the flop, turn or both. Since we are normally betting our good hands and good draws, this is a very effective filter to find our marginal hands that we are uncomfortable with. You are not looking for a win rate here, you are looking at the individual hands to see what you are doing. Are you only calling with good odds (express or implied)? Are you floating villains with low c-bet percentages? Are you trying too hard to get weak pair hands to showdown against multiple streets of aggression? Other than hands you slow played, EVERY ONE of these hands is a potential leak, in which you should have folded preflop, or to a post flop bet.

Those are about the only spots I can think of at the moment that might be causing you to lose too much postflop.

I hope you find the leaks. PM or AIM me while you are looking if you have any questions.
thx man, I'll get down to it, sending you a pm right away..........
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:45 AM   #631
Mase31683
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Did I get skipped for a reason? If you need more info, or just can't help me that's fine, but I'd like to know. Thanks again!
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:53 AM   #632
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Your stats look pretty solid. Your sample size is just way too small to work with, so i won't go into the details.

You might try to reduce the limping in EP and raise more in LP, changing your stats to, say, 22/17 or so, but basically everything looks good.

I can't really advise you whether to move up or whether to put more money online--that is a personal financial decision.

But if you are not a ridiculous luck box in this sample your stats seem to indicate the ability to beat $25.
Thanks for taking a look at that mpethy. I am trying to get in as many hands as i can, but between the full time job and my kid I can only get 250-300 hands in a day. What is a good sample size to look at somewhere 10k and 25k hands? I only have 8 buy-ins at 25NL so I will probably wait a couple weeks to move up.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:24 PM   #633
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
You have a bunch of small leaks, but no big ones except the big blind, and this could just be a sample size issue. This is true for pretty much everything i say--your sample size is on the low side to be analyzing stats.

Your big blind loss rate is horrific. You are taking double the losses in the BB you ought to be taking.

You are too passive preflop; you should be raising a higher proportion of the pots you enter.

your button win rate is far too low. You should check to make sure you are not doing crazy aggro things otb because you think you are entitled to the pot because it's your button (don't laugh, I do this ALL the time).

bet more, call less. your aggression factor is too low.

you are limping and calling a lot in EP--keep an eye on this as your sample size approaches 40,000; I doubt it will remain a profitable strategy, but it might.

You're probably running pretty hot in this sample--enjoy it while it lasts and work on tweaking your game.

Good luck.
Many thanks for your advice. I'll work on it...
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:25 PM   #634
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Did I get skipped for a reason? If you need more info, or just can't help me that's fine, but I'd like to know. Thanks again!
No, no reason, I just missed your post.

i took a two second look just now and you appear to be in the don't change a thing category. But I will take a more careful look tomorrow.

sorry for the mix up and the delay.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:08 PM   #635
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hi guys. I just started my NL cash game adventure and so far things have gone above all expectations at NL10.
Please tell me if you can see obvious problems with my stats.


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Old 10-17-2008, 05:16 AM   #636
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Just did a Pokey analysis of my last 100,000 hands:
+ 1) pfr to vpip looks good
+ 2) positionally aware
+ 3) stealing blinds very profitably
+ 4) raising from blinds working, defending very well
- 5) losing badly when not aggressor pf in hu sit.
- 6) losing badly limping in multiways
- 7) losing w/ 22 and 33, going too far w/ these postflop w/ out set
- 8) cold calling w/ suited connectors awful
- 9) losing w/ unsuited connectors, cold calling no good
+ 10) cbet % looks good, AF plenty aggro
- 11) not cr-ing quite enough

Other observations:
- losing badly limping overall
+ raising suited connectors very profitable, should do more

Maybe I should never limp? Only call pf in obviously good situations?
Is my flop aggression just absurd in relation to my turn/ river aggression?
I've been trying to find situations to check the flop more.

I've had tilt problems over this stretch, although it's not far under my usual 4ptbbs/ 100 avg. My goal is to begin to level above 5ptbbs/ 100, so I can move on to NL100. Don't feel ready yet, need to patch up leaks, please help. Some of you are very good at this analysis.



Last edited by negtv capability; 10-17-2008 at 05:43 AM. Reason: img
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:26 AM   #637
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hey all i just hit 100$ from nothing @ 2NL, starting 5NL today, here is my stats.
I'm new to all this so let me know if i should include more stats or anything else u need to analyze.
thx guys.





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Old 10-17-2008, 01:09 PM   #638
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Mase31683 View Post
Okay, I know that I'm doing well, but I really feel like there might be a significant leak or two in my game. First of all, I was playing very TAGish, running 11/8/3 and doing well, about 15bb/100. But the last couple thousand hands, I've opened my game up quite a bit to more of a 25/4/2.25 and my winrate's jumped a ton. Over those hands, I'm at 25bb/100. So there's definitely room for improvement still.

The things that are sticking out at me mainly are:

1) My cbet%. I'm winning 51% of flops w/o showdown. So should I just cbet the crap out of everything? Or is that going to change the amount of FE I get? I'm not sure how things work at this level.

2) My fold to river bet. 68%??? That sounds HUGE, but is it? I have no idea.

Obviously anything at all that you see on top of these points I'd love to hear it. Thanks a lot!

Mase:

It's hard to argue with success, but I do not like your preflop stats at all. You are playing a really loose passive game. You are really going to have to change this as you move up.

Whether you are going to play a loose aggressive or tight aggressive game doesn't matter; what does matter is that you add in some aggression preflop. The general rule is that you should be raising at least 2/3 of the time you enter a pot.

NL $2 can be beaten by just about any style of play provided that the player is at least somewhat educated in pot odds and the like, and is at least a little bit selective. So I am not surprised you are beating the game playing loose passive. But as you move up, limping and calling preflop will become less profitable, and you will not be the only player at the table who is using aggression to pick up pots.

this will force you to change your game significantly--you will have to cut down on the number of hands you play from EP, the number of hands you limp, and the number of preflop raises you call. You will have to increase the proportion of hands that you raise, and increase the proportion of hands you play from late position.

Your post flop stats look fine to me. It is your post flop skill that is making you money right now at $2. You will have to revamp your game to something like 22/17 or 16/12 to continue winning at higher stakes. Certainly by the time you get to $25.

My advice is to start changing your game now at $2. Ignore the effect on your win rate, and focus on the preflop changes I have suggested here. Making the changes at $2 is way more +EV than making them at $10 or $25 while you are being pummeled by other aggressive players, even if it means taking a short term hit to your win rate at $2.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:15 PM   #639
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazound View Post
Hi guys. I just started my NL cash game adventure and so far things have gone above all expectations at NL10.
Please tell me if you can see obvious problems with my stats.


very, very nice stats, ultrazound. Congratulations.

Open up a bit more from late position. When it is folded to you in the hijack, cut off or on the button, raise roughly the top 40% of starting hands and look to steal the blinds or win a small pot on the flop.

Study your EP hands and see why you are negative there. It could be a few cooler type hands, or it could be a tendency to not c-bet whiffed AK, or to give up too much on QQ when a K or an A falls, or it could be the hands you are limp/calling with (this last is the most likely). Fix that leak, whatever it turns out to be.

other than these two things, don't change a thing and move up as soon as you are rolled for it.

Nice work.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:38 PM   #640
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by negtv capability View Post
Just did a Pokey analysis of my last 100,000 hands:
+ 1) pfr to vpip looks good agreed
+ 2) positionally aware agreed
+ 3) stealing blinds very profitably disagree a bit. You don't steal enough--get your ATS up from 26 to 35--this change alone will provide you with the increased win rate you are looking for.
+ 4) raising from blinds working, defending very well disagree. your small blind loss rate is awesome, but your BB loss rate is marginal, right there on the border of being a leak. there are several reasons why this might be the case, but i think you are not firing at orphan limped pots enough, for starters. read post 489 ITT.
- 5) losing badly when not aggressor pf in hu sit. This is a major leak, then, and you really, really have to work on it. In a big sample, I am +.27ptbb/hand where i call a preflop raise. You really need to study your profitability by starting hands and by position and figure out what you are doing wrong.
- 6) losing badly limping in multiways I don't know what you mean by losing badly. i would consider losing badly anything more than .25ptbb/hand, as this is the amount of the original limp. I would consider it a leak if you are negative at all. Either way, you should be profitable in this situation.
- 7) losing w/ 22 and 33, going too far w/ these postflop w/ out set If you are raising these from EP, then i don't think this is much of a leak, unless the numbers are huge. But if you are folding them in EP, or limp/calling them, then I agree this is a leak.
- 8) cold calling w/ suited connectors awful zomg. you should be 3 betting them some IP.
- 9) losing w/ unsuited connectors, cold calling no good
+ 10) cbet % looks good, AF plenty aggro
- 11) not cr-ing quite enough

Other observations:
- losing badly limping overall
+ raising suited connectors very profitable, should do more

Maybe I should never limp? No. I would say a strategy of never open limping is fine, maybe even standard. But you have to limp sometimes. I mean, suppose UTG, UTG+1 and MP1 all limp, and you are in the CO with 22-55--folding or raising here would be pretty bad, imo.Only call pf in obviously good situations? yeah.
Is my flop aggression just absurd in relation to my turn/ river aggression?nope, it's fine
I've been trying to find situations to check the flop more. meh, you have to some of the time, but err on the side of betting.

I've had tilt problems over this stretch, although it's not far under my usual 4ptbbs/ 100 avg. My goal is to begin to level above 5ptbbs/ 100, so I can move on to NL100. Don't feel ready yet, need to patch up leaks, please help. Some of you are very good at this analysis.


In general i think your stats are fine. Your W$WSF is too low, your BB loss rate is a little high and your ATS is too low. Otherwise, you look great.

Your W$WSF will improve some if you start firing at orphans from the BB cold calla little less per your own analysis and raise your steal %. I really think that is all you need to do to move up to $100.

Good luck.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:39 PM   #641
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

mpethybridge,

Thanks for the feedback. This thread is gold. I'll try to work on the things you mention, and hopefully my good run will continue.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:40 AM   #642
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****





Although admittedly a small sample, can anyone tell me what this says about my play? The mini-downswing is from when I moved up to NL10 and then lost two buyins, then moved back down to NL5. (I'm back to NL10 now, hence with my total profit over 1000 hands at NL10 is like $1.20.)

EDIT: pics aren't showing, gimme a sec

EDIT 2: there we go
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:27 AM   #643
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by Mr Roffle View Post




Although admittedly a small sample, can anyone tell me what this says about my play? The mini-downswing is from when I moved up to NL10 and then lost two buyins, then moved back down to NL5. (I'm back to NL10 now, hence with my total profit over 1000 hands at NL10 is like $1.20.)

EDIT: pics aren't showing, gimme a sec

EDIT 2: there we go
a. sample is not big enough
b. no position stats
c. it's helpful to have the non-sd line on the graph

everything looks pretty good so far. you should be raising a bit more and calling or limping a bit less.

Your W$WSF is too low, you are giving up on too many pots.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:43 PM   #644
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

mpethybridge,
I think you are spot on. I'm taking what you've said to heart. In a way, it's good to know that I have identifiable leaks that can be fixed over time with hard work/ study/ changes in my game.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:54 PM   #645
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Here is my first 30k hands stats at 10NL. Looking forward to hearing some feedback.

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Old 10-18-2008, 05:21 PM   #646
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Awesome, that's pretty spot on to what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure. I'll definitely switch it up, and get the preflop AF up higher. Thanks a lot!
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:56 AM   #647
Chargers In 08
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Spade Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
Don:
5. Cut off play. Same as above. Play the cut off exactly like the button except when you have a solid TAg to your immediate left (and in that case you should normally leave the table).
Nitpicking here but depending on your button opening standards you should be aware of loose players on button who do not fold to cbets and be more likely to throw hands away like 45s and play bigger cards like T9o. jmo though.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:50 AM   #648
mpethybridge
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Nitpicking here but depending on your button opening standards you should be aware of loose players on button who do not fold to cbets and be more likely to throw hands away like 45s and play bigger cards like T9o. jmo though.
not so much of a nit pick as a really good point.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:30 PM   #649
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

Hey guys, found this thread and think it's amazing! I've mainly played sngs for about a year unsuccessfully and decided that cash games were the way to go. I started out in August and struggled but 2p2 has helped quite a bit, however I still have a lot to learn, so I thought I'd post my stats and my graph for October so far in the hope to fix some of my leaks:

I realize my button numbers are horrible but I think I've improved that in the past couple of weeks.




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Old 10-20-2008, 02:24 AM   #650
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Re: **** Official Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread ****

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Here is my first 30k hands stats at 10NL. Looking forward to hearing some feedback.

did i get missed?
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