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Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread

09-21-2008 , 06:03 PM
Damn, so frustrating... 30K hands and I'm even. I know, and I'm sure I've exprenciend some brutal downswing... The Weird thing is that a downsing like the one below shouldn't happen I guess.... But I really faced same sick streaks.
I think at NL20 the rake has still a big effect ($344 / 30K hands...). Btw here is the graph:



Now I'm playing NL25 at FTP after the cashout at NoIQ (bonus and cashback made me an extra $150).

It has been swingy already, also look at my adjusted ALL-IN EV, I should have $100 more, I know it is a ridiculous sample, I hope to catch up....



Here I'm not asking for a stat analysis (done already, so i'm not posting them), and I'm still trying to apply all the things suggested by the great mpethybridge
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-21-2008 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluker824
hi

I have been grinding in 2nl with 4-6 tables for like 1 and half months now. I m planing to move up the limit once I hit $200 on my bankroll. I got around $160 now.
I just want to see if there is any major leak in my play so I can fix it before I move up. Well here is my stats:

Thanks for your input

Fluker, sorry for the delay; I thought i responded to this yesterday.

Button stats: look good, ATS is too low. aim for 35%

CO stats: look good--don't expect your winrate to stay that high.
check your by position ATS to make sure it is up around 30-35%
You are maybe calling a bit too much

HJ: looks good

MP you are definitely calling too much

EP: You are limping a lot; I'm not sure I have a problm with this at $2.

As a result of all of the calling and limping you are doing, your vpip/pfr is at 15/7, which is more passive than we typically like to see. But it is definitely a winning strategy at $2. The way to change this up as you move up stakes will be to cut out a lot of the cold-calling preflop raises and EP limping--this would change you to about a 12/10 as you hit NL $25.

You should be working on a few of the fundamental flaws in your game that your stats disclose:

1. You are way too tight passive in the BB, and way too loose passive in the small blind. the small blind is a major leak for you. Don't complete with just a2c; and RAISE to steal a lot if there was only 1 limper ahead of you.

I recently did a 100% VPIP challenge at NL $2. People said 100% was impossible b/c of all the limped pots you would see in the BB. So i thought, well, ok, I'll just raise 100% in the BB when it is limped to me, and the hand will count as a vpip. as it turned out, the big preflop raise took down about 85% of the pots that had been limped to me. The moral of the story is that the level plays fairly weakly, in general, and a big raise preflop will fold out a lot of limpers a lot of the time. The only people who adjusted to me doing this in the BB seemed to be in the small blind, and they adjusted by folding preflop rather than complete and face the big raise; as a result, my VPIP was 96%--which translates to 4 walks in the BB in 500 hands.

2. Your W$WSF is too low. This is a result of you playing so many pots where you have limped behind or called a PFR--situations that force you to play fit or fold poker, for the most part. Look for spots where you called in position and have an opportunity to steal the pot. say UTG raises and you call on the button with 98s. Flop comes with an A or a K. villain checks. If villain is a passive or tight player, consider betting here--you will fold JJ, TT, QQ a lot of the time. Resist the urge to play only fit or fold poker in position--you have to steal some of the pots on flops you miss. Don't go crazy, but make sure you are always looking for spots to do this.

3. Your W$SD is right on the edge of being low. Because you are a new player, I suspect that you are maybe calling too often on the river when you are behind. Review your hands and look for spots where you should have folded earlier--maybe even preflop.

I think you would close to double your winrate if you double your steals, increase your W$WSF to 40% by trimming out some of the more speculative hands you call or limp with, and finding maybe 2 or 3 more good river folds per 100 showdowns.

all in all i think your stats are good--you are definitely on the right track, but make the adjustments I have discussed as you move up, so that by the time you hit NL $25 you are playing a solid 13/10 or 12/10 game and you can look to open up from there.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-21-2008 , 11:45 PM
Hey guys, I'd appreciate your input. Please don't laugh at my volume, as I'm transitioning from SNG's to Cash and still multi-tabling SNG's . This is my first 5k hands at the micros...

Profit graph .....




Stats pic ....



Positions pic .....



I know the bread and butter should be the Button, but I've been getting monster hands in the blinds, and I also think I defend well from playing SNG's.

Do I have what it takes to play cash? Or should I stick with the SNG's and learn some more? The majority of the graph is 25 NL Full Ring.

Anything you see would be appreciated.

-- Farticus.


Thanks,
Farticus.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-22-2008 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsifals
this is just really terrible.

your vpip should only be a few % off your preflop raise. you're too passive preflop. you are probably playing too many hands for your skill level, too. at those stakes playing that many tables you should run much closer to 12/10.

you go to showdown way too often, largely (given these stats) because you're too passive postflop as well.

attempt to steal is one of the most important stats you could be looking at, and the fact you didn't include it suggests that you undervalue the importance of position.


you're going to have to completely revamp your game in order to move up successfully. tighten your hand selection a bit, raise limpers a LOT more when you're in lp--raise limpers with any hand you'd play except sometimes small pairs vs short stack limpers. just stop limping nearly altogether. start betting more, take the lead in hands when you can.

i know your winrate looks good but you could probably double it at 2nl.
TY for the comment
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-22-2008 , 11:15 PM
Mpethybridge, figured I could used some of your infinite statistical wisdom to see if you can find any leaks. Positional Stats are combined from 25NL and 50NL due to my small sample there, if you would like me to do them individually I can, but I know my game hasnt changed much in between the two limits. I really wanted to wait till I got till 200k hands before I did a stat checkup, but I figued 90k was probably good enough to detect any obvious leaks.

Thank you in advance.



Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-24-2008 , 02:31 AM
@Farticus:

I think it makes more sense if you post your position pic seperately for 6-max and full-ring.

I also think your sample size is too small. Else I do not believe that someone is able to fold 100% from the SB and BB after a steal (for your 0.5$ FR).

Btw, do you play at a side where full-ring only has 8 players?

Regards,
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-24-2008 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasons0147
Mpethybridge, figured I could used some of your infinite statistical wisdom to see if you can find any leaks. Positional Stats are combined from 25NL and 50NL due to my small sample there, if you would like me to do them individually I can, but I know my game hasnt changed much in between the two limits. I really wanted to wait till I got till 200k hands before I did a stat checkup, but I figued 90k was probably good enough to detect any obvious leaks.

Thank you in advance.



You play the small blind more aggressively than anybody I think I have ever seen.

Your stats look really, really solid. You blocked out winrates, so I don't have all the information I normally use to check play by position (each position has a winrate that I consider "normal").

But from the information you posted, you do an absolutely great job of playing a by-the-book TAg game. I don't see any leaks at all in your stats. If you are leaking significantly, it is going to be in other areas of your game.

I don't know why you blocked out your winrates, but I would like to ask you to either post or PM your unedited screenshots showing your winrates. I would prefer that you post them. Here's why: If you have the winrate I expect you to have, then your stats are an excellent example for others to use--they can compare theirs to yours and see the ways they need to change their game. ("ok, I am not stealing enough; ok, he doesn't call as much as I do, let me look into how I am doing in these hands I call with," etc.) But if your winrate is not what I expect it to be, then it can serve as an excellent example of what people mean when they say "don't play for specific stats," and it will help me find the leaks.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-24-2008 , 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farticus
Hey guys, I'd appreciate your input. Please don't laugh at my volume, as I'm transitioning from SNG's to Cash and still multi-tabling SNG's . This is my first 5k hands at the micros...

Profit graph .....




Stats pic ....



Positions pic .....



I know the bread and butter should be the Button, but I've been getting monster hands in the blinds, and I also think I defend well from playing SNG's.

Do I have what it takes to play cash? Or should I stick with the SNG's and learn some more? The majority of the graph is 25 NL Full Ring.

Anything you see would be appreciated.

-- Farticus.


Thanks,
Farticus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggaWasgeht?
@Farticus:

I think it makes more sense if you post your position pic seperately for 6-max and full-ring.

I also think your sample size is too small. Else I do not believe that someone is able to fold 100% from the SB and BB after a steal (for your 0.5$ FR).
+1

I'm not going to laugh at your sample size, but there's not much we can do with it.

The one thing that jumped out at me, though, is your big difference between the W$WSF at 6 max and the W$WSF at FR. Your sample size is just too small to work with but it looks like you play a lot more timidly at FR than at 6 max, as if you are thinking, "zomg, these FR nits always have a hand."

Edit: your FR W$SD of 20% is a ridiculous stat--either you are running bad in this tiny sample or you are not thinking what i thought you were, and you are getting to showdown ridiculously light. Most likely it is what--1 or 2 bad sessions?--and we can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it.
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09-24-2008 , 11:16 AM
Mpethybridge, I guess I wasnt really worried about hiding my winrate but more curious as to if you thought I should be winning more than I am with the game that I play. I can give you the 50NL one as well, I figure Ill post up the 25NL ones since I have the most play time there. Also, I dont know if it matter but I 16 table.



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09-24-2008 , 11:54 AM
^^^^^^^^^

your winrate is 1 ptbb lower than i thought. may be nothing. grinding, lemme get back to you later.

edit: nm, it is your blind play. check my post around post #434 or so--there's a list of ways to get aggro in the blinds. the list is bulleted with red hearts.

Your blind loss rates are right at the border between leak/not leak, imo. make some minor tweaks as outlined in that post and I think you will hit 4.5 or 5 ptbb/100.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-24-2008 , 12:37 PM
post 489 jason. sorry
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09-24-2008 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
post 489 jason. sorry
Found it, read it, and I'll work on applying what you discussed in that post immediately. Ive heard several different theory's on raise sizes in the SB when its folded to you, and Im curious how you feel about raising to 5x out of the SB if the pot is going to be HU between me and BB?
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09-24-2008 , 02:46 PM
I do 4 at my coach's insistence.
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09-25-2008 , 09:29 AM
I need some major help moving up to 50NL. I've included the last 2 months of play at 25NL and 50NL for me. I can see an obvious differerence in the VPIP and PFR stats, but I'm sure that's not my only problem. I've actually improved my VPIP/PFR at 50NL to 13.5/9 over the last 6k hands of 50NL FWIW. Smallish sample for 50NL, but I'm sure some of my massive leaks are showing.

Graph is 25NL and 50NL combined. Downward "spikes" are 50NL. Anything moving up is 25NL. Largest downswing at 25NL is only 4 buyins and I think this happened only 1 or 2 times.





25NL Positional:


50NL Positional:


I'd really appreciate any help!

Last edited by JH1; 09-25-2008 at 09:35 AM.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasons0147
Found it, read it, and I'll work on applying what you discussed in that post immediately. Ive heard several different theory's on raise sizes in the SB when its folded to you, and Im curious how you feel about raising to 5x out of the SB if the pot is going to be HU between me and BB?
My strategy in this situation is this:

vs. nits and weak tights I raise 3BB. ATC. It works just as often as a larger raise and I risk less OOP because their calling/raising range has me crushed.

vs. TAGish players, I mix it up between 3-4BB depending on their fold to steal, and steal ~ 30%.

vs. LAGs and calling stations I make it 4BB and tighten up to ~15-20% for value. I will revert this back to 3BB and tighten up a lot more if I can figure out that a LAG thinks this is weak and 3bets a lot.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JH1
I need some major help moving up to 50NL. I've included the last 2 months of play at 25NL and 50NL for me. I can see an obvious differerence in the VPIP and PFR stats, but I'm sure that's not my only problem. I've actually improved my VPIP/PFR at 50NL to 13.5/9 over the last 6k hands of 50NL FWIW. Smallish sample for 50NL, but I'm sure some of my massive leaks are showing.

Graph is 25NL and 50NL combined. Downward "spikes" are 50NL. Anything moving up is 25NL. Largest downswing at 25NL is only 4 buyins and I think this happened only 1 or 2 times.





25NL Positional:


50NL Positional:


I'd really appreciate any help!
Part of your problem is that you ran hotter than the surface of the sun at NL $25 and you are running pretty bad at $50--so the difference between running hot and running pretty bad seems huge to you, I would imagine.

Seriously bad luck to take disproportionate bad luck at the higher stakes when you re trying to move up.

But you are also leaking a little bit:

1. Big blind. Your loss rate in the BB is just a tiny bit too high. You are an absolute rock in the BB; you need to defend a bit more to get this loss rate down below .22ptbb/hand.

2. Your W$WSF is too low. You need to exploit position a bit more and play less fit or fold.

3. Your button win rate is too low at $50. Could be sample size, or it could be that you are not winning enough of your steals, or losing too much on the steals you ave to give up on. You are cold calling about 1/3 of the hands you are playing in LP; this is maybe a bit high, but it is fine as long as you are willing to stab at pots that get checked to you, or, on occasion, try to take one away. But calling 1/3 and then only playing fit or fold in those hands will harm your winrate.

4. Your steal success is outstanding. loosen up a bit more and treat the CO just like the button. The hijack is a stealing position, too.

5. You are limping 2% of your EP hands. Check HEM to see if these hands are profitable for you. If not, raise them or fold them.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 03:43 PM
I would really appreciate somebody having a look at my stats and seeing if I'm going majorly wrong somewhere. Since joining this forum and taking my game seriously, I started out at 2nl and crushed the game, pretty quickly getting my roll upto $150. I then moved upto 5nl where things went pretty smoothly for 7k hands or so, then it all started to go wrong. I keep getting massive downswings and am struggling to get over 3ptbb/100 for 30k hands, whereas I was beating 2nl for 15ptbb/100 over about the same number of hands.

It would be really good to know if there's something I'm obviously doing wrong or whether I'm just getting a few bad streaks. It seems like I go smoothly upwards for a while, then sharply down, then the cycle repeats, and even though my trend is basically upwards, I am getting sick of winning $1 per hour playing for peanuts and want to start moving up towards 25nl by the end of the year. I'm currently playing 6 tables, I'd play more but I'm on a laptop and my screen isn't big enough as I like to be able to see each table.

Hope this link to my stats pic works, I've never posted a pic in here before:



Any help would be massively appreciated....
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247
I would really appreciate somebody having a look at my stats and seeing if I'm going majorly wrong somewhere. Since joining this forum and taking my game seriously, I started out at 2nl and crushed the game, pretty quickly getting my roll upto $150. I then moved upto 5nl where things went pretty smoothly for 7k hands or so, then it all started to go wrong. I keep getting massive downswings and am struggling to get over 3ptbb/100 for 30k hands, whereas I was beating 2nl for 15ptbb/100 over about the same number of hands.

It would be really good to know if there's something I'm obviously doing wrong or whether I'm just getting a few bad streaks. It seems like I go smoothly upwards for a while, then sharply down, then the cycle repeats, and even though my trend is basically upwards, I am getting sick of winning $1 per hour playing for peanuts and want to start moving up towards 25nl by the end of the year. I'm currently playing 6 tables, I'd play more but I'm on a laptop and my screen isn't big enough as I like to be able to see each table.

Hope this link to my stats pic works, I've never posted a pic in here before:



Any help would be massively appreciated....
Ron:

I could tinker with your game A LOT, but I really only see two categories of play that I consider leaks.

1. Your blind play. I like to see people get their combined loss rate in the blinds down to -0.32ptbb/2 hands (per orbit). Yours is at -0.37. I like to see it distributed as -0.21 in the BB, give or take, and -0.11 in the SB. Yours is reversed; you are losing 0.17 in the BB, and -0.20 in the SB. So your big blind play is fine, but you are leaking pretty big in the small blind. A look at your stats shows why: you are completing way too often in the small blind, which has you playing a lot of those small pots out of position and without taking the initiative by raising. Read post 489 in this thread, focusing more on the tweaks you need to make to your SB play; as I said, your BB play is fine, and if you change it, you should change it very slightly.

2. You are cold calling a little more than i would like to see in all positions. In EP, you really shouldn't be calling much at all. basically 1 or 2% of the time; say, when you are UTG+1 w/ a pocket pair and UTG raises. This % of cold calling should increase very slightly by position until you get to the button, where any cold calling number between 5 and 7 s generally fine. Some people call less than this, and I have no problem with it either. But when the number gets up around 7, i start thinking that the player is calling with a lot of hands and then playing too much fit or fold, no set no bet type poker.

Your W$WSF%s by position for the non-blind positions are pretty damn good, though, so I think you are balancing making plays with playing fit or fold pretty well. What I would like to see you do is cut back by about 1 or 2 hands per 100 the number of hands you cold call with, but not change the frequency with which you make a play on the pot post flop. I would drop suited connectors (look through HEM and find one or two that you play that are not profitable) rather than pocket pairs.

If these seem like kind of small adjustments, well, they are. But most generally solid players such as you have a bunch of small leaks, rather than one or two enormous ones.

Your game only needs tweaking, not overhauling (like mine needs, lol).

The other thing I would like you to check is your river calling efficiency. There's no easy way to do this. You have to go through the hands where you called on the river and lost and look for spots you should have folded rather than having called.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 09:42 PM
Thank you so much for the analysis. Much appreciated. My questions in blue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
Part of your problem is that you ran hotter than the surface of the sun at NL $25 and you are running pretty bad at $50--so the difference between running hot and running pretty bad seems huge to you, I would imagine.

Seriously bad luck to take disproportionate bad luck at the higher stakes when you re trying to move up.

Are you basing my luck on my actual winnings to my EV adjusted winnings or my W$SD considering that I have a standard ~25% WtSD? I'm assuming it's more on the EV adjusted # as at 25NL my 70-80% equity hands are probably holding something like 80-95% of the time. At 50NL they are probably holding 60-70% of the time. These are just my estimations.

But you are also leaking a little bit:

1. Big blind. Your loss rate in the BB is just a tiny bit too high. You are an absolute rock in the BB; you need to defend a bit more to get this loss rate down below .22ptbb/hand.

2. Your W$WSF is too low. You need to exploit position a bit more and play less fit or fold.

Probably a loaded question that needs its own thread, but I've been wondering how to do this most effectively. I assume you mean stealing more pots from players who probably missed and are cbetting as well as pushing weak-tight players off their hands. Same idea as your point #3 I suppose.

3. Your button win rate is too low at $50. Could be sample size, or it could be that you are not winning enough of your steals, or losing too much on the steals you ave to give up on. You are cold calling about 1/3 of the hands you are playing in LP; this is maybe a bit high, but it is fine as long as you are willing to stab at pots that get checked to you, or, on occasion, try to take one away. But calling 1/3 and then only playing fit or fold in those hands will harm your winrate.

4. Your steal success is outstanding. loosen up a bit more and treat the CO just like the button. The hijack is a stealing position, too.

My steal strategy is a couple of posts up. I owe this success to Pokey. I will try to open up some more, I've been hesitant to do this because I hate it when I'm OOP with crap and I have a button caller. This will obviously have to be situationally dependant.

5. You are limping 2% of your EP hands. Check HEM to see if these hands are profitable for you. If not, raise them or fold them.

Never even considered checking this. It's a decent sized leak. -32 ptBB/100 doing this in EP. Raise or fold is the way to go.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-25-2008 , 09:55 PM
JH1:

Yeah, I based it on the difference between your winnings and your equity adjusted winnings.

2. yes.

4. getting called by the button sometimes is the price of doing business. treat the CO just like the button if you have a nit to your left, and if he calls, don't get tricky oop.

5. w00t! That might be the plugged leak of the month. Major congrats!
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-26-2008 , 03:42 AM
mpethybridge, thanks a lot fot the analysis. It's made me feel a bit better about my game as the two main leaks you have mentioned, I have actually picked up on myself (thanks to a recent hand review session) and started to try and fix them already. It's good to know that I'm generally going in the right direction. I guess I've just got to concentrate a bit more, keep plugging away and see where I'm at in another 30k hands. The advice is much appreciated, many thanks!
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-26-2008 , 04:13 AM
A little background on myself. Recently started playing poker again after having quit for ~2 years. Before i quit i only played .5/1 and 1/2 Limit. However i recently came back to the game (about 2 months ago) and decided i wanted to make a stab at no limit. After trying alot of limits i eventually settled on 25NL because it suited my bankroll.
It has been going fairly well up to now (excluding bonusses and rakeback) and i was thinking of moving up to 50NL. However there were a few things that confused me in my stats and i was wondering if these were leaks that needed fixing:









1. My non showdown winings are higher then my showdown winners. Does this mean i am being too agrresive with my made hands or not laying down enough when im clearly behind?

2. My aggresion factor is 5.7. Am i simply calling too little or am i just overly aggresive?

3. Cbet% of 85%. Seems a bit high but dont know if this is a leak.

4. W$WSF of 49.51%. Does this mean that im simply in a 25k upswing since i've read that it's usually around 35%?

Would like some feedback before i make the tranition to 50NL.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-26-2008 , 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joopjan
A little background on myself. Recently started playing poker again after having quit for ~2 years. Before i quit i only played .5/1 and 1/2 Limit. However i recently came back to the game (about 2 months ago) and decided i wanted to make a stab at no limit. After trying alot of limits i eventually settled on 25NL because it suited my bankroll.
It has been going fairly well up to now (excluding bonusses and rakeback) and i was thinking of moving up to 50NL. However there were a few things that confused me in my stats and i was wondering if these were leaks that needed fixing:









1. My non showdown winings are higher then my showdown winners. Does this mean i am being too agrresive with my made hands or not laying down enough when im clearly behind?

2. My aggresion factor is 5.7. Am i simply calling too little or am i just overly aggresive?

3. Cbet% of 85%. Seems a bit high but dont know if this is a leak.

4. W$WSF of 49.51%. Does this mean that im simply in a 25k upswing since i've read that it's usually around 35%?

Would like some feedback before i make the tranition to 50NL.
1. No
2. No/No
3. No
4. No

I love the easy ones. What this all means is that you are kicking some butt with a solid LAg style.

Seriously, LAgs usually have a red line higher than the blue line--it is very, very standard.

You could open up a bit more from the button and the cut off. If you think your c-bets are a leak, all you have to do is run the filter in HEM or PT3 to check your profitability. Run it 3 times, for EP c-bets, MP c-bets and LP c-bets.

Another player started a separate thread on trying to develop his LAg style. You look more qualified than I to help him. Could you do 2+2 a favor and shoot him a PM so you guys can talk loose to each other?

If your profits go down when you move up to $50, which will be very soon, post again and we'll see what we can do about adapting your game to $50. But for now, just keep doing what you are doing.

Really.

great stats.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
09-26-2008 , 04:51 AM
Thanks for your replies just wanted a little comfirmation before moving up, but this assures my that my play is solid enough for 50NL. Ill look into the pm's.
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09-26-2008 , 04:57 AM
here's his thread
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