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Old 09-16-2018, 02:31 PM   #1
Dhurd55
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NL10- Hand review

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
CO ($10) [VPIP: 15.8% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 22.2% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 19]
BTN ($14.6) [VPIP: 61.1% | PFR: 4.2% | AGG: 45.2% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 72]
SB ($11.81) [VPIP: 43.7% | PFR: 17.5% | AGG: 22.2% | 3-Bet: 5.6% | Hands: 104]
BB ($8.07) [VPIP: 24.7% | PFR: 8% | AGG: 25.9% | 3-Bet: 3% | Hands: 174]
HERO ($29.14) [VPIP: 16.1% | PFR: 13.8% | AGG: 38% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 20692]
EP ($12.8) [VPIP: 27.3% | PFR: 4.5% | AGG: 44.4% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 44]
MP ($8.83) [VPIP: 26.6% | PFR: 13.9% | AGG: 28.6% | 3-Bet: 4.2% | Hands: 79]
HJ ($11.38) [VPIP: 18% | PFR: 18% | AGG: 45.5% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 50]

Dealt to Hero: A Q

HERO Raises To $0.30, EP Folds, MP Folds, HJ Folds, CO Calls $0.20, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.25, BB Calls $0.20

Hero SPR on Flop: [6.48 effective]
Flop ($1.20): 6 Q T
SB Checks, BB Checks, HERO Bets $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 27.64), CO Folds, SB Calls $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 10.31), BB Calls $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 6.57)

Turn ($4.80): 6 Q T 3
SB Checks, BB Checks, HERO Bets $4.80 (Rem. Stack: 22.84), SB Folds, BB Raises To $6.57 (allin), HERO Calls $1.77 (Rem. Stack: 21.07)

River ($17.94): 6 Q T 3 8

Spoiler:



what do you think? I personally think I got to exited here with TPTK. he definitely could have had some sets and 2 pair. wasn't really expecting him to show kings though.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:45 AM   #2
Svenskeren
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Re: NL10- Hand review

Hi,

Are you using any tracking? If you dont have any information on him, obviously he's fishy the way he played. But your hand is strong and you need protection, but no need to bet pot size, you just become unbalanced.

Having 2 players call your pot size bet flop you need to check and hope for good river so you can just call. Unless you have reads making it a value bet turn IP to earn money from people Calling 2 streets with flush/straight draws.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:56 PM   #3
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

thanks svenskeren

I do have tracking but i am playing on bovada which is anonymous, so all of my info on players is from only that session.

I agree on the bet sizing. would you say half to 3/4 pot would be better?
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:57 AM   #4
Svenskeren
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Re: NL10- Hand review

3/4 flop on this board, 1/3 is enough if its a dry board. And since you are IP with no information betting 3/4 turn would be fine as long as you check/fold to jam on river.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:36 AM   #5
duckyfAL
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Re: NL10- Hand review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhurd55 View Post
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
CO ($10) [VPIP: 15.8% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 22.2% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 19]
BTN ($14.6) [VPIP: 61.1% | PFR: 4.2% | AGG: 45.2% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 72]
SB ($11.81) [VPIP: 43.7% | PFR: 17.5% | AGG: 22.2% | 3-Bet: 5.6% | Hands: 104]
BB ($8.07) [VPIP: 24.7% | PFR: 8% | AGG: 25.9% | 3-Bet: 3% | Hands: 174]
HERO ($29.14) [VPIP: 16.1% | PFR: 13.8% | AGG: 38% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 20692]
EP ($12.8) [VPIP: 27.3% | PFR: 4.5% | AGG: 44.4% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 44]
MP ($8.83) [VPIP: 26.6% | PFR: 13.9% | AGG: 28.6% | 3-Bet: 4.2% | Hands: 79]
HJ ($11.38) [VPIP: 18% | PFR: 18% | AGG: 45.5% | 3-Bet: 5.9% | Hands: 50]

Dealt to Hero: A Q

HERO Raises To $0.30, EP Folds, MP Folds, HJ Folds, CO Calls $0.20, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.25, BB Calls $0.20

Hero SPR on Flop: [6.48 effective]
Flop ($1.20): 6 Q T
SB Checks, BB Checks, HERO Bets $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 27.64), CO Folds, SB Calls $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 10.31), BB Calls $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 6.57)

Turn ($4.80): 6 Q T 3
SB Checks, BB Checks, HERO Bets $4.80 (Rem. Stack: 22.84), SB Folds, BB Raises To $6.57 (allin), HERO Calls $1.77 (Rem. Stack: 21.07)

River ($17.94): 6 Q T 3 8

Spoiler:



what do you think? I personally think I got to exited here with TPTK. he definitely could have had some sets and 2 pair. wasn't really expecting him to show kings though.
1) i think you bet really big otf, on multiway pots with a stonr hand i like to bet like 33% to filter players who has weak hands.

2) wich hands they call SO big otf?, you bet the pot, wich hands do you think they will call?

3) ott again, you should bet smaller, if you get raise then you can evaluate from there.


ofc the guy who has KK play it really bad.

but be careful on multiway pots, because they are so many ranges and hands.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:02 PM   #6
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

--I agree with the bet sizing being to big otf and turn

--Given that they were fishy opponents i would expect them to continue with majority flush draws in their range, any Broadway draws, Q10+, KK+, and some sets... they might have raised me Otf with a set or 2 pair so thats iffy but i cant disregard it.

do you think that is pretty accurate?
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:55 PM   #7
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhurd55 View Post
--I agree with the bet sizing being to big otf and turn

--Given that they were fishy opponents i would expect them to continue with majority flush draws in their range, any Broadway draws, Q10+, KK+, and some sets... they might have raised me Otf with a set or 2 pair so thats iffy but i cant disregard it.

do you think that is pretty accurate?
Yes, that is accurate, however we have ace of clubs, which makes NFD not possible for villain. He can be check raising turns with flush draws, but you're not folding to a shove, and even if he has something like KJc, his equity has declined dramatically on the turn, if he is aware of that fact. This is a gross spot, the stack to pot ratio is nothing on turn, villain is not even full stacked. He is also to the tight side of loose passive, which makes this pretty much a value shove on turn, but we are quite high up in range, have to bet turn considering multitude of possible draws, and then unfortunately have to mathematically call off.
I don't think that you got "too excited". Ranges are going to be wide, so TPTK is a clear flop and turn value bet against a multitude of draws / dominated top pair / 2 pair draw lol or whatever villains want to call with. Just a cooler IMO.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:57 PM   #8
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

also, wow. flatting in the big blind with kings multi-way. just wow.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:31 PM   #9
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

I agree, and I somehow didn't notice the ace of clubs so that further reduces a lot of the flush draws in his range. I got on equilab and put in the range of hands i thought he would shove with here and we had like 62% equity..

a couple questions

1. do you think i should have checked the turn? then evaluated on the river

2. Lets say i took the same line but had made better sized bets on the flop and turn and he jams is this still a call?
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:32 PM   #10
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

and I know, when he showed KK I was pretty shocked lol
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:30 PM   #11
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhurd55 View Post
I agree, and I somehow didn't notice the ace of clubs so that further reduces a lot of the flush draws in his range. I got on equilab and put in the range of hands i thought he would shove with here and we had like 62% equity..

a couple questions

1. do you think i should have checked the turn? then evaluated on the river

2. Lets say i took the same line but had made better sized bets on the flop and turn and he jams is this still a call?
Well, let's do some quick math. If you bet 3/4 pot, .90 on flop, and assuming we get the same 2 callers, then the pot is 3.90 on the turn, with villain having 6.87 behind. If we again bet 3/4 pot on turn, then we are getting laid roughly 3.5:1, villain's stack + $7 pot : $4 , so we need 28% equity vs range to continue to break even. If you do fool around with equilab, you can try to construct his post flop range for getting it in on the turn. I don't have equilab here at work, but I found this nifty equity calculator here on the forums

http://gtorangebuilder.com/#equity-c...,T6s,TT_p1AcQd

I added KQ and AQ combos to his nutted range, but against purely his nutted range without these combos + a few monster draws, we are not being given the correct price to call on turn, but adding KQ / AQ makes it slightly better than breakeven. The question is whether or not he gets it in with KQ on turn considering how passively he plays. I don't know the answer to that question, but considering the sample, I don't know if we can take those out of his GII range on turn considering how suboptimally he is playing.

Also, it is a slam dunk value bet on turn. We are ahead of a multitude of hands on flop that still trail on the turn, his raise just tells us otherwise. We don't have to pot control on turn, check calling ranges on this flop are not specifically nutted combos, but turn check raises might be. We also give a free card to draws, which is a disaster. We should opt for the more aggressive play with strong hands when ranges are wide /
relatively weak, and opponents can have a wide range of draws to call us with.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:45 PM   #12
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

http://gtorangebuilder.com/#equity-c...,T6s,TT_p1AcQd

whoops forgot top set haha, equity is roughly the same, tho, also only 1 combo
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:02 PM   #13
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

I agree with you checking the turn would do nothing but help my opponents catch their draws at a cheaper price, which we never want...

in my previous reply i had said i had 62% equity but i was wrong on that... I went back over it and came up with 46% .

when making the range in equilab i went through all the hands in his range using the suit selection tool and removed all the cards that would be impossible for him to have.. as an example I took out all the Qc and Qd because I have the Qd and the Qc is on the board.

I didnt think i would have to do all that but it changed the results.. am i correct in doing this? I am new to equilab so I am just learning how to use it.



i plugged in the range I had made into the equity calculator on here so you can view it.

Let me know if im constructing my villians ranges correctly.. and what hands i should add or remove in this particular situation.
I think i might have added in a few to many combos of his draws but idk..

Last edited by Dhurd55; 09-19-2018 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:03 PM   #14
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

http://gtorangebuilder.com/#equity-c...Th,TdTh_p1AcQd
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:52 PM   #15
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

giving your specific hand as your range, equilab should remove the combos which opponent cannot have automatically. Also, our opponent *might* shove some weaker Qx on turn, but our read is that he's pretty loose passive, so I don't know if it's realistic to assume he'll just shove any middling queen on this board. Also, he can have pair + FD, I suppose, again, though, our read is that he's pretty loose passive. Check raising turn with second pair + FD is pretty LAGgy, and fairly high risk, and he also doesn't have any fold equity AP. 78 is also, at the end of the day, just a gutshot to the not nut straight without the flush draw, and he can be dominated both ways. I included 98 because it's a DBB, though only 3 nut straight outs. I am not saying that he can't possibly have those hands if he is tilting or something, but we might try to assume he's playing relatively in line with his stats, and what is close to what he percieves his hand strength to be. Even so, by tighter range calculations, a turn call is slightly better than breakeven. It's a matter of degree. I guess the takeaway is to just think about hands in these terms as you are playing. Also, take a look at lines that your opponents take with DriveHUD and see where they fall in their range with certain stats, that's a very useful thing to do.
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Old 09-19-2018, 09:02 PM   #16
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

and you're right to not include 33 haha and include Q6s, I just kind of plugged the stuff in fairly quickly
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Old 09-19-2018, 09:04 PM   #17
amazin lazer
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Re: NL10- Hand review

result is essentially the same either way, though, from a "do I have enough equity to better than breakeven on a call" standpoint
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:12 PM   #18
Dhurd55
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Re: NL10- Hand review

yeah I think I added in too many draws for this style player. he would most likely call or fold with these instead of check raising.

I think this is just a tough spot overall but I definitely could have made better decisions throughout the hand.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:04 AM   #19
duckyfAL
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Re: NL10- Hand review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhurd55 View Post
--I agree with the bet sizing being to big otf and turn

--Given that they were fishy opponents i would expect them to continue with majority flush draws in their range, any Broadway draws, Q10+, KK+, and some sets... they might have raised me Otf with a set or 2 pair so thats iffy but i cant disregard it.

do you think that is pretty accurate?
yeh, i think a lot of people think that, you have to BET BIG, for the ones who has FD, and i think it its a mistake, ofc you have to bet to extract value from draws, but if you bet big ALWAYS, some times they will hit the draw, and you will check and you are going to be really predictible. Remember poker is about balance, so think about that.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:26 AM   #20
TexInAtl
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Re: NL10- Hand review

I would just thank the BB for not having more in their stack.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:53 AM   #21
MyLastGamble
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Re: NL10- Hand review

I agree, no need to bet pot on the flop. Bet 1/2-2/3 pot does the trick. AP, with 2 callers on the flop, check turn in position and see what happens on the river


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Old 11-05-2018, 06:51 PM   #22
Scuba Chuck
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Re: NL10- Hand review

BB ($8.07) [VPIP: 24.7% | PFR: 8% | AGG: 25.9% | 3-Bet: 3% | Hands: 174]

Isn't BB playing KQ or QJ the same way? He's playing 25% of hands right?
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