Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2013, 06:07 PM   #1
jaypatel33
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,801
NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #18703291

    CO: $3.60 (36 bb)
    BTN: $10.27 (102.7 bb)
    Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
    BB: $10 (100 bb)
    UTG+2: $10.26 (102.6 bb)
    MP1: $14.32 (143.2 bb)
    MP2: $12.24 (122.4 bb)
    MP3: $10.25 (102.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A K
    UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.10, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.80

    Flop: ($2.30) 3 9 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.50, Hero folds




    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



    Villian is 50/32/3.5 after 50 hands

    cbet: 80,30,100
    fold: 20,67,100

    Are you cbetting here, considering villian may guess (not sure what he thinks) that we miss here a lot, plus his stats looks like he floats the flop. I folded because I strongly felt I would need to double or triple barrell here, since we didn't connect at all with the board (no draws) I folded.
    jaypatel33 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-01-2013, 06:54 PM   #2
    Teppec
    veteran
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: River Call Efficiency <0
    Posts: 2,934
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    Of course I'm cbetting, and it's generally for value. I just do it smaller. Probably around .8-.9. Villain's range is WAY too wide to be ch/f a flop where we're likely still ahead. And I prefer to bet rather than play the ch/guess game.
    Teppec is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-01-2013, 07:13 PM   #3
    eWeet
    centurion
     
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: 4NL and 10NL
    Posts: 187
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Teppec View Post
    Of course I'm cbetting, and it's generally for value. I just do it smaller. Probably around .8-.9. Villain's range is WAY too wide to be ch/f a flop where we're likely still ahead. And I prefer to bet rather than play the ch/guess game.
    a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot.... anything below that is asking to be called or raised by the villain. since the cbet is so low, it's still a guessing game if you get called.
    eWeet is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-01-2013, 09:30 PM   #4
    Teppec
    veteran
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: River Call Efficiency <0
    Posts: 2,934
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    A good cbet size is the right size for the situation. I see no reason to bet more than the amount I suggested. It accomplishes the same for less here. Villain isn't likely to fight back significantly more often if we cbet .9 vs cbetting 1.5. It's a 3b pot, either he likes this flop or he doesn't, and it's a cheaper price for getting to the turn to possibly spike a pair if he chooses to just call.

    Occasionally he will also continue with worse because of the size. I'm pretty ok with that since we dominate a lot of the worse he'll peel one with that we're ahead of (Ax, Kx). And if we both improve, we're getting more from him.

    I'm not sure why you think that a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 the pot. It's not, in many and arguably most situations.
    Teppec is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-02-2013, 05:26 AM   #5
    ionutd
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    ionutd's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Posts: 11,291
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    bet 1$, barrel almost every turn cept the obvious bad ones
    ionutd is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #6
    danny2241
    adept
     
    danny2241's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Sydney Australia
    Posts: 1,148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eWeet View Post
    a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot.... anything below that is asking to be called or raised by the villain. since the cbet is so low, it's still a guessing game if you get called.
    This is completely wrong and costing you a lot of money if you do it by default. Smaller flop cbets pretty much accomplish just as much and also set up cheaper turn barrels for villains that habitually float the flop and fold the turn most of the time.
    danny2241 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-02-2013, 01:33 PM   #7
    eWeet
    centurion
     
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: 4NL and 10NL
    Posts: 187
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danny2241 View Post
    This is completely wrong and costing you a lot of money if you do it by default. Smaller flop cbets pretty much accomplish just as much and also set up cheaper turn barrels for villains that habitually float the flop and fold the turn most of the time.
    Forgive me if i'm wrong, but isn't the point of a cbet is to give your opponent the wrong pot odds to call and try catch their cards. And when an opponent calls with the wrong pot odds it's considered a "mistake". And when they make a "mistake" you win sklansky bucks. (refer to fundamental theory of poker by david sklansky)

    When you do smaller cbets, you are giving weaker hands the right pot odds to call and catch their cards.

    The only way I see smaller cbets being okay to use is if there is an opponent who folds to small cbets when they are given the correct pot odds to call. In this case, the opponent is a total fish with no understanding of pot odds, but I feel like there are more players nowadays with at least some understanding.

    Now that I think about it, maybe all the responses I've been giving is geared towards villains with knowledge of the game rather than villains that are true fishes. I definitely prefer to err on the side of overestimating my opponents than underestimating.
    eWeet is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-02-2013, 02:36 PM   #8
    Teppec
    veteran
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: River Call Efficiency <0
    Posts: 2,934
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    You are mis-applying the concepts I think.

    We're not trying to deny draws, we're trying to find the right sizing to have villain incorrectly fold equity (unpaired undercards, sometimes small pairs) without fighting back against us, while also minimizing how much we lose cbetting in to a made hand that either fights back or stations us in position and we don't turn good barrel cards and have to ch/f.

    And, I would use the same sizing with big pairs and 9x vs regs as I would with AK or other random overs in a 3bet pot. So it's as much a balance issue as something that I think works well in this situation.

    And we can do it with our big hands too because remember, it's a 3bet pot. It'll be easy to go bigger later to get the rest of the money in if we need to.
    Teppec is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 08-02-2013, 06:17 PM   #9
    KBrum
    stranger
     
    KBrum's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2013
    Posts: 12
    Re: NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

    Cbet 50ish% pot OTF and barrel any broadway.

    We have 6 outs if we're behind which are nearly always good. Also, since it's a pretty dry flop, villain might be inclined to float a cbet with a hand like 77/88 IP, which we can apply a lot of pressure to OTT if we get a decent barrel card. Also, villain could float with complete junk which we can take the pot away from OTT with a 2nd barrel as well.
    KBrum is offline   Reply With Quote

    Reply
          

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off


    Forum Jump


    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:42 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin®
    Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Copyright 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
     
     
    Poker Players - Streaming Live Online