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NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station

08-01-2013 , 06:07 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #18703291

    CO: $3.60 (36 bb)
    BTN: $10.27 (102.7 bb)
    Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
    BB: $10 (100 bb)
    UTG+2: $10.26 (102.6 bb)
    MP1: $14.32 (143.2 bb)
    MP2: $12.24 (122.4 bb)
    MP3: $10.25 (102.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A K
    UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.30, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.10, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.80

    Flop: ($2.30) 3 9 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.50, Hero folds




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    Villian is 50/32/3.5 after 50 hands

    cbet: 80,30,100
    fold: 20,67,100

    Are you cbetting here, considering villian may guess (not sure what he thinks) that we miss here a lot, plus his stats looks like he floats the flop. I folded because I strongly felt I would need to double or triple barrell here, since we didn't connect at all with the board (no draws) I folded.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-01-2013 , 06:54 PM
    Of course I'm cbetting, and it's generally for value. I just do it smaller. Probably around .8-.9. Villain's range is WAY too wide to be ch/f a flop where we're likely still ahead. And I prefer to bet rather than play the ch/guess game.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-01-2013 , 07:13 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Teppec
    Of course I'm cbetting, and it's generally for value. I just do it smaller. Probably around .8-.9. Villain's range is WAY too wide to be ch/f a flop where we're likely still ahead. And I prefer to bet rather than play the ch/guess game.
    a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot.... anything below that is asking to be called or raised by the villain. since the cbet is so low, it's still a guessing game if you get called.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-01-2013 , 09:30 PM
    A good cbet size is the right size for the situation. I see no reason to bet more than the amount I suggested. It accomplishes the same for less here. Villain isn't likely to fight back significantly more often if we cbet .9 vs cbetting 1.5. It's a 3b pot, either he likes this flop or he doesn't, and it's a cheaper price for getting to the turn to possibly spike a pair if he chooses to just call.

    Occasionally he will also continue with worse because of the size. I'm pretty ok with that since we dominate a lot of the worse he'll peel one with that we're ahead of (Ax, Kx). And if we both improve, we're getting more from him.

    I'm not sure why you think that a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 the pot. It's not, in many and arguably most situations.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-02-2013 , 05:26 AM
    bet 1$, barrel almost every turn cept the obvious bad ones
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-02-2013 , 08:27 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eWeet
    a good cbet is 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot.... anything below that is asking to be called or raised by the villain. since the cbet is so low, it's still a guessing game if you get called.
    This is completely wrong and costing you a lot of money if you do it by default. Smaller flop cbets pretty much accomplish just as much and also set up cheaper turn barrels for villains that habitually float the flop and fold the turn most of the time.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-02-2013 , 01:33 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danny2241
    This is completely wrong and costing you a lot of money if you do it by default. Smaller flop cbets pretty much accomplish just as much and also set up cheaper turn barrels for villains that habitually float the flop and fold the turn most of the time.
    Forgive me if i'm wrong, but isn't the point of a cbet is to give your opponent the wrong pot odds to call and try catch their cards. And when an opponent calls with the wrong pot odds it's considered a "mistake". And when they make a "mistake" you win sklansky bucks. (refer to fundamental theory of poker by david sklansky)

    When you do smaller cbets, you are giving weaker hands the right pot odds to call and catch their cards.

    The only way I see smaller cbets being okay to use is if there is an opponent who folds to small cbets when they are given the correct pot odds to call. In this case, the opponent is a total fish with no understanding of pot odds, but I feel like there are more players nowadays with at least some understanding.

    Now that I think about it, maybe all the responses I've been giving is geared towards villains with knowledge of the game rather than villains that are true fishes. I definitely prefer to err on the side of overestimating my opponents than underestimating.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-02-2013 , 02:36 PM
    You are mis-applying the concepts I think.

    We're not trying to deny draws, we're trying to find the right sizing to have villain incorrectly fold equity (unpaired undercards, sometimes small pairs) without fighting back against us, while also minimizing how much we lose cbetting in to a made hand that either fights back or stations us in position and we don't turn good barrel cards and have to ch/f.

    And, I would use the same sizing with big pairs and 9x vs regs as I would with AK or other random overs in a 3bet pot. So it's as much a balance issue as something that I think works well in this situation.

    And we can do it with our big hands too because remember, it's a 3bet pot. It'll be easy to go bigger later to get the rest of the money in if we need to.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote
    08-02-2013 , 06:17 PM
    Cbet 50ish% pot OTF and barrel any broadway.

    We have 6 outs if we're behind which are nearly always good. Also, since it's a pretty dry flop, villain might be inclined to float a cbet with a hand like 77/88 IP, which we can apply a lot of pressure to OTT if we get a decent barrel card. Also, villain could float with complete junk which we can take the pot away from OTT with a 2nd barrel as well.
    NL10 AK oop in 3bet pot facing a calling station Quote

          
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