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Old 11-11-2007, 04:36 AM   #26
AceCR9
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm on the list i get it now, i don't know why that took me so long lol
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:38 AM   #27
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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i get it now, i don't know why that took me so long lol
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:37 AM   #28
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

i do not understand.
someone please pm me the meaning of bottomset's list.
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:53 AM   #29
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

I'm rooming with the most hated shortstacker in the world during PCA

Whos gonna beat me up!
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:44 AM   #30
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm rooming with the most hated shortstacker in the world during PCA

Whos gonna beat me up!
who is that?
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Old 11-11-2007, 03:57 PM   #31
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

BT2
AceCR8
nation
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:00 PM   #32
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

So I guess MTTR got paid off by the illuminati? The real secret is to always buy in for 23BB and always open raise 5BB. They'll try to have me killed for divulging this.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:18 PM   #33
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm rooming with the most hated shortstacker in the world during PCA

Whos gonna beat me up!
who is that?
CHOO CHOO
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:52 PM   #34
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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off-topic,

I've been thinking of an experiment
great shortstackers pretty much uniformly claim how unique and valuable their information is. Thus, they haven't posted any of it. I know about 80% of it from quite a bit of success shortstacking myself. One could apply themselves and in a month have a 5 figure per month income working 35 hour weeks. However, this might destroy the poker games that regular full-stackies depend on.

I'm thinking about just posting guidelines, charts, hand histories and everything I have on shortstacking to see if the info really is that valuable.

If it is that valuable, I expect someone to buy me off before I post it all.

</delusionsofgrandeur>
is it against 2p2 T&C to offer for sale a "shortstacking playbook" in BBV?
guess it isn't allowed

i asked in "about the forums"
thread got deleted I guess
I hoped it was going to the mod forum for discussion, but I never heard anything and the link to the thread no longer works

Mason says, "No".

If you want to sell your "book" on 2+2, buy an ad..

(Or write a real book and convince 2+2 to publish it).
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Old 11-11-2007, 05:09 PM   #35
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

I always thought people hated fatal error more than imsa
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:13 AM   #36
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
off-topic,

I've been thinking of an experiment
great shortstackers pretty much uniformly claim how unique and valuable their information is. Thus, they haven't posted any of it. I know about 80% of it from quite a bit of success shortstacking myself. One could apply themselves and in a month have a 5 figure per month income working 35 hour weeks. However, this might destroy the poker games that regular full-stackies depend on.

I'm thinking about just posting guidelines, charts, hand histories and everything I have on shortstacking to see if the info really is that valuable.

If it is that valuable, I expect someone to buy me off before I post it all.

</delusionsofgrandeur>
is it against 2p2 T&C to offer for sale a "shortstacking playbook" in BBV?
guess it isn't allowed

i asked in "about the forums"
thread got deleted I guess
I hoped it was going to the mod forum for discussion, but I never heard anything and the link to the thread no longer works

Mason says, "No".

If you want to sell your "book" on 2+2, buy an ad..

(Or write a real book and convince 2+2 to publish it).
makes sense...ty for replying

I'm debating what to do as far as posting alot of info or not

I'm truly not sure what is in the best interest of the game
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:18 AM   #37
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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MyTrun2Raise is not even good, idk why anyone would want to learn from him. He has even admitted to being a V small winner, and dependent on RB and bonuses for any real profit.

anyone can be a winning SS'er if they put in the time to learn the math involved, however for the vast majority of players you will be more long-term +ev full stacking
while I'm not good, I'm much better than the player you remember terrorizing OnGame

I'm fairly sure that any player could apply himself and be making 5 figures a month within 3 months with 20BB buyins, which brings me to the later point on it being better for players to play fullstack from a financial perspective

doubtful...the vast majority would be in better financial situation shorting IMO

there just aren't that many people who are good at the dynamics of fullstack poker
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:20 AM   #38
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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DIE SHORTSTACKERS DIE.

That said, it's not like it can't be countered by a thinking human being who takes notes, datamines, and can estimate shortstacker ranges.

I wish you luck countering if you are playing with other 60+BB stacks
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:23 AM   #39
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm rooming with the most hated shortstacker in the world during PCA

Whos gonna beat me up!
who is that?
Choo [censored] Choo
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:37 AM   #40
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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MyTrun2Raise is not even good, idk why anyone would want to learn from him. He has even admitted to being a V small winner, and dependent on RB and bonuses for any real profit.

anyone can be a winning SS'er if they put in the time to learn the math involved, however for the vast majority of players you will be more long-term +ev full stacking
doubtful...the vast majority would be in better financial situation shorting IMO
lol

both take time to become a winning player @ higher limits. anyone who is smart and puts in the time will be a long term winner @ either one. however full stacking has a higher potential ev than short stacking. I would be suprised to see a SS'er @ 2/4+ winning over 2ptbb/100 over a large sample. and if there are some, I would confidently guess its <10.

I have yet to see a +ev SS'er playing HU btw, and I've played plenty.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:38 AM   #41
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I always thought people hated fatal error more than imsa
you must not read MSNL
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:11 AM   #42
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

I ate dinner once with Imsa and he said a lot of people hate him...
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:20 AM   #43
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I ate dinner once with Imsa and he said a lot of people hate him...
Its funny because hes a really nice kid in real life
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:27 AM   #44
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

I completely agree
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:55 AM   #45
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm fairly sure that any player could apply himself and be making 5 figures a month within 3 months with 20BB buyins

Sorry but I don't buy this idea at all. The idea that there are a handful of rules and by following them profit is almost guaranteed is absurd.

Do similar rules exist for fullstacking? In theory I know what I should do but the whole idea of learning poker is to learn to apply information and knowleadge in a playing situation. This is not easy. If it was I would read the best 5 books ever written on poker, memorize them, and be one of the best poker players in the world.

Do you see how absurd this idea is? Similarly it is absurd that for SS'ing there are guidelines and by knowing them makes you great. Even by knowing and learning those guidelines does not guarantee a least bit a winning player.

I don't buy the idea that SS'ing is somehow different from fullstacking in the way that it can be applied to become a winner. I am sorry to tell you guys but there is no Holy Grail, no shortcut to become a winning player.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood the debate.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:21 AM   #46
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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So I guess MTTR got paid off by the illuminati? The real secret is to always buy in for 23BB and always open raise 5BB. They'll try to have me killed for divulging this.
LOLLED and LOLLED and LOLLED
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:35 AM   #47
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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Sorry but I don't buy this idea at all. The idea that there are a handful of rules and by following them profit is almost guaranteed is absurd.
In Tic-Tac-Toe there is a set of rules that if you follow you can never lose. Shortstacking is really only played on 2 streets PF and the flop. If u really understand Shortstacking u can make money, If you are smart enough to really understand the dynamics of shortstacking, you can make much more playing a Full stack.

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Do similar rules exist for fullstacking?
Nope, Full stacking is like playing chess.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:43 AM   #48
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Ulkis,

Yes, you are correct when you say that poker is hard. But the shortie isn't playing poker. He's playing a differant game called "shove."

It's hand range vs hand range. Mr. McShove buys in for 20bb at a table where everyone else had 100bb. (That's the key point - That everyone else had a big stack and he doesn't.)

The big stackers are, for the most part, playing hands that rely on implied odds - Hands like SCs & suited gappers, small pairs, suited aces & kings, etc. Hand distrobution indicated that when a big stack enters a pot for a raise or calls a raise, it is far more likely that he's playing one of these implied odds hands rather than a big pair.

The shortie isn't playing implied odds hands. He's playing hands like AK, AQ, KQ & JJ+. And remember - most flops miss most players. So when the shortie shoves on the flop, even unimproved, the vast majority of the time he is likely to either have his opponent crushed or be just a very small dog.

So hand range plus fold equity makes it profitable in the long run for the shortie to shove any flop that he sees head's up. If you don't belive that, then why is your c-bet percentage so high?

Yes, a good deep stack player can adjust his range and start to play top pair poker vs the shortie. But in doing so he's offering great implied odds to the other deep stack players at the table.

And that is the advantage that the shortie had over the deep stack player. The deep stack player has to play with the specter of the other deep stack players at the table felting him. He has to watch out for reverse implied odds and play four streets of poker.

Mr. McShove doesn't have to do that. By playing Shove, he only has to play two streets and doesn't have to worry about odds at all.



[i](If any group of hard core limit hold'em players ever got it into their heads to kill internet NL cash and drive all the fish back to limit hold'em, they could open a "boiler room," train 12-16 players to work in shifts, multi-tabling 16 tables of NL cash 24/7 on all the major poker sites across all limits. It wouldn't take long for a "MIT Poker Team" to kill the game and drive off the fish.)
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:58 AM   #49
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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(If any group of hard core limit hold'em players ever got it into their heads to kill internet NL cash and drive all the fish back to limit hold'em, they could open a "boiler room," train 12-16 players to work in shifts, multi-tabling 16 tables of NL cash 24/7 on all the major poker sites across all limits. It wouldn't take long for a "MIT Poker Team" to kill the game and drive off the fish.)
You don't think there are 12-16 good short stackers in the world already? I think you underestimate the number of sites and games and hours in the day. But say it were possible, I don't think the outcome would be worth the trouble.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:20 AM   #50
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I'm on the list i get it now, i don't know why that took me so long lol
I guess I'm outta the loop. I don't get it.
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