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 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread  M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

12-03-2009 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Effen
Yay I'm in a thread.
i lol'd
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12-21-2009 , 07:40 AM
Bump
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12-21-2009 , 03:01 PM
I cannot believe the guys shortstacking 50NL and 100NL fullring

if you know anything about shortstacking at all, you should be in aggressive 6max games
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
12-21-2009 , 11:55 PM
There are plenty of short stackers on the full ring games today, and most are pretty bad. Had a table with only 2 full stacks
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
12-21-2009 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist Pump
There are plenty of short stackers on the full ring games today, and most are pretty bad. Had a table with only 2 full stacks
[ ] Amazing table selection
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
12-22-2009 , 12:13 PM
With the new calculator, what formula did you put to work out "adjust for players left to act" since you dont know their calling range or was it just 77+ AJ+?
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
12-26-2009 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise
it works out to something like this:
f(R+1.5) + c(w((E+1.5)-1/20(2E+1.5))-l(E)) > 0
where
f = % of time initial raiser folds to push
c = % of time initial raiser calls push
R = Open raise size of initial raiser
w = win % of pushing hand v initial raiser's calling range
l = loss % of pushing hand v initial raiser's calling range

Basically, those terms account for the money won when the inital raiser folds to the push and the amount won win the push hand beats out the calling hand outweighing the amount lost when the calling hand beats the push hand.

Here, the action of the table dictates the initial raise size and the effective stack. The shortstacker must estimate the initial opening range and the calling range.

NOTE: this is assuming a BB and SB and a 5% rake. All of this stuff can change as well as there being overcallers...yummy!

the solution is to simplify for w and find out what win pct your hand needs verse a villain calling range.


w > ( (c-1)(R+1.5)/c + E) / (19E/10 +57/40)
So to derive an unexploitable range of cards to resteal with, do we assume that c=1 (initial raiser will always call) ? This would just lead to calculation what cards will be +EV against two random cards...which sounds a bit too simple for me.

If C=1 and E=20, w=.507, which corresponds to 77+ against ATC....(I feel like I am wrong here). Or should I be looking for w>.507 vs the initial raise range?
For example initial raise range 19.8% (66+,A3s+,K8s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+), hands that have w>.507 are 88+,AT+

Let me know if I have it right...or am completely off.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
12-30-2009 , 06:20 PM
all this stuff works??

Well Im just asking before i read it all...

Thanks in advance!
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12-30-2009 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnec_wow
all this stuff works??

Well Im just asking before i read it all...

Thanks in advance!

hahaaah
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12-31-2009 , 01:38 PM
Ive got a question about an EV calculation for the example you give in the first lesson.

I had used the EV equation:
EV = (Money won from pot)+(Money won from bets)-(Money lose from bets)
0 = 4.5*(0,6875*Eq + 0.3125)+17*(0,6975*Eq)-20*(0,6875*(1-Eq))
Eq = 0,4326 = 43,26%

While applying the equation on the Lesson 1:
0 = f(R+1.5) + c(w((E+1.5)-1/20(2E+1.5))-l(E))
0 = 0.3125*(3+1.5) + 0.6875*(Eq((17+1.5) - 1/20*(2*17+1.5))-(1-Eq)*17)
Eq = 44.36%
I have the same results (44,36%) when I use the SSS calculator

I wonder why the results are different between the two equations when we are calculating the same thing (Eq). or maybe im doing something wrong...?

thank you ! and congratulation for the post
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-13-2010 , 02:03 PM
anyone interested in a short stacking study group? pm me.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-13-2010 , 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnec_wow
all this stuff works??

Well Im just asking before i read it all...

Thanks in advance!
Yes, it works. If your goal is to win less than 1.5ptBB/100 and probably less than that. You need to do some thinking and working out ranges, especially calling ranges and plan on mass tabling.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 12:00 AM
Always was in favor of if someone wanted to SS, let them.

But maybe SS'ing really has hurt the game.

Was just a year ago, on PokerStars, you see tables 30% VPIP, even 40% VPIP. Almost never sit at one 25% or less.

Now seems every table has min 3 SS, up to 5 on each. Rarely if ever see a table 30% VPIP, never see 40% anymore. Usually happy to find ones 25%.

Average VPIP on PokerStars now is like 18%-19%. Excluding the 50BB tables.

Amazing what a difference a year makes.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Yes, it works. If your goal is to win less than 1.5ptBB/100 and probably less than that. You need to do some thinking and working out ranges, especially calling ranges and plan on mass tabling.
I also recommend anti-depressants. Perhaps prozac. I tried it for a little while just to see how those people I hate live -- it sucked balls. The variance of this thin edge strategy is insane. You might as well go play PLO.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:43 AM
while the variance is high in terms of buyins, it's much less than a fullstacker at the same game level would experience
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03-14-2010 , 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerPower
Always was in favor of if someone wanted to SS, let them.

But maybe SS'ing really has hurt the game.

Was just a year ago, on PokerStars, you see tables 30% VPIP, even 40% VPIP. Almost never sit at one 25% or less.

Now seems every table has min 3 SS, up to 5 on each. Rarely if ever see a table 30% VPIP, never see 40% anymore. Usually happy to find ones 25%.

Average VPIP on PokerStars now is like 18%-19%. Excluding the 50BB tables.

Amazing what a difference a year makes.
given that the 50BB tables are nearly the same VPIP and less WTSD, I wouldn't say that SS is creating the situation you are talking about
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Yes, it works. If your goal is to win less than 1.5ptBB/100 and probably less than that. You need to do some thinking and working out ranges, especially calling ranges and plan on mass tabling.
the best make more, but the vast majority are even less than 1.5ptbb/100. They are under 0.5ptbb/100. Then again, that is a greater win pct than quite a bit of the poker community. Plus, it's good donkament training, which is where the positive fat-tail results lie.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise
given that the 50BB tables are nearly the same VPIP and less WTSD, I wouldn't say that SS is creating the situation you are talking about
Maybe I am wrong, would not be first time.

But given that I stated the 50bb tables are close to same, but rest of the tables(the majority on Pokerstars) now are 17-19% VPIP would it not help prove how SSers have changed the game for the worse, and not disproved it ?
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
03-14-2010 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise
the best make more, but the vast majority are even less than 1.5ptbb/100. They are under 0.5ptbb/100. Then again, that is a greater win pct than quite a bit of the poker community. Plus, it's good donkament training, which is where the positive fat-tail results lie.
There will always be a few outliers.

It is also good about really learning about what hands have value against certain ranges when I did it for a week. One thing I might go back to again was that most of my profit came from when I had doubled up and was waiting to for the blinds to come around before leaving. Most players can't adjust to the fact that you might know how to play deeper. One memorable table I started with 20BB and left with 200BB because they couldn't figure out that when I was at 70BB, I wasn't willing to stack off on the flop with less than a monster.
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04-12-2010 , 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise
one could only hope, yet I've seen nothing from the sites thus far to suggest they'll do that
2 1/2 years later....bump....announcement from pokerstars is imminent (see thread elsewhere)
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04-12-2010 , 04:09 AM
Anticipatory "HAHAHAHAHAH SHORTSTACKING SCUM!"
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04-12-2010 , 02:27 PM
sadly, 50BB (and 40BB) min tables are much, much worse for the poker economy than shortstackers are
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
04-12-2010 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise
sadly, 50BB (and 40BB) min tables are much, much worse for the poker economy than shortstackers are
Please explain.
 M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread Quote
04-12-2010 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247
Please explain.
+1
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04-12-2010 , 02:45 PM
lol
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