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Old 11-16-2007, 12:58 AM   #226
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

what typs of hands do you play from the sb when there are limpers? what do you raise and what do you complete?


same ? for bb when there are limpers


At what point should you rat hole?
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:05 AM   #227
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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At what point should you rat hole?

IMO, this varies from situation to situation.
If you're at a table that doesn't have much preflop aggression, just leave at 27+ BBs.
If you're sitting to the left of a LAG who hasn't adjusted to you, you can keep playing the simple resteal shove game to 33BBs or so.

Plus, it depends how you feel about other aspects of the game.
I mean, it doesn't have to be shove or fold. It's nice to get that extra steal in with the LAG to the right and get up over 35BBs.

The safe (default) answer is 28-29BBs IMO until you are used to shortstacking situations and how to read the table.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:08 AM   #228
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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what typs of hands do you play from the sb when there are limpers? what do you raise and what do you complete?
I've just been treating this like regular fullstack poker for the most part. I'll raise with hands that play poor in multiway limped pots out-of-position. I'll limp with hands that are easy to play in multiway limped pots OOP. One key thing is that there is less fear over potentially dominated hands. You cannot get caught for a big pot with KT when you lose to AT on a T high flop. It sucks, but isn't quite the deal it once was.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:09 AM   #229
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

If five people read this thread and become great shortstackers that would be a lot.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:10 AM   #230
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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what typs of hands do you play from the sb when there are limpers? what do you raise and what do you complete?


same ? for bb when there are limpers


At what point should you rat hole?
Why don't you datamine and answer these questions? You're like the equivalent of a OOT googletard.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:12 AM   #231
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

oh yeah...that reminds me selfishly of another advantage to me in having this thread

it seems that those most likely to adapt to shortstacking and be successful are those currently grinding fullstack on small stakes games. I mainly grind small stakes games. Remove a few regulars and my main game gets much better.

of course, that is just confirmation bias
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:13 AM   #232
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

FWIW, I copied all of MT2R's "lessons" and saved them as a PDF. If anyone wants a copy, send me a PM with an e-mail address.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:15 AM   #233
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Quote:
Quote:
what typs of hands do you play from the sb when there are limpers? what do you raise and what do you complete?


same ? for bb when there are limpers


At what point should you rat hole?
Why don't you datamine and answer these questions? You're like the equivalent of a OOT googletard.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:28 AM   #234
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

OK, now people are just posting crap, trying to get the thread locked/deleted, and just sucks.

If you asshats want to take attention away from this thread, the go start another thread and post high level poker theory & content there.

'Cause unless I miss my guess, this constant adolescent flame baiting and homoerotic douchery will just lead to the individuals getting banned.

None of us were born with poker knowledge, and that includes all you haters. I'm willing to bet that your game is based on a solid foundation of strategy that you learned from better players who posted their knowledge here on 2+2. Now MT2R is doing the same for others.

So since you have already benefited from the forum, you want to deny that same privilege to others?

Christ! There are children that know how to act better than some of you seem to.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:28 AM   #235
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Some 40putts hands
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:12 PM   #236
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

this is a good thread and I am glad it is in a format that makes it hard for the common fish to implement. my Q, I only have exp SSing FR games for 10k hands ( 1.5 days basically) what does your PT stats come out to in 6m. In FR i played a 9/8.5 style that won over 2/100.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:19 PM   #237
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Here are some of the high points that I've learned in my brief experience and through reading some threads.

1. Use smaller raises when there are good SSer's yet to act behind you or one has limped in ahead of you.
2. Shove over LP SSer opens. Skier talked about this in his thread here.
3. Most importantly (this is my own opinion,) don't be afraid to flip for 20BBs. In the absence of risk to other full stacks, I put SSer's AI w/ +MPPs and AJ+ or worse.
4. Steal or manipulate the initiative. Be the aggressor, put them to the question. Their stacks are small and it is easy to estimate their actions. Their moves are predictable, therefore, don't bet in spots where you will get raised AI and you don't want to call. Overbet in spots that will leave you hanging in the wind to a raise.

Use FE as your own weapon and disarm the SS's of their primary tool.
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:09 PM   #238
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

I dont think any great ss is really sad about this thread.
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:26 PM   #239
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

Quote:
If five people read this thread and become great shortstackers that would be a lot.
I LIKE this post alot.

GEEZ Louise people, this is a STRAT post. Get over it.

THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

(Personally, I suspect I play well against shorties as I am attentive to stack sizes before the hand is dealt.)
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:28 PM   #240
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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FWIW, I copied all of MT2R's "lessons" and saved them as a PDF. If anyone wants a copy, send me a PM with an e-mail address.
How much $$$$ ?
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:52 PM   #241
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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(Personally, I suspect I play well against shorties as I am attentive to stack sizes before the hand is dealt.)
You don't. You think you do. I've seen only a handful of people have any sort of clue what they're doing, which is why Choo Choo is wonderful.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:08 PM   #242
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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FWIW, I copied all of MT2R's "lessons" and saved them as a PDF. If anyone wants a copy, send me a PM with an e-mail address.
I wish I would've put more effort into editing in that case

I just worked off of a quickly jotted outline--there are some horrible grammar and spelling mistakes

oh well
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:08 PM   #243
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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I dont think any great ss is really sad about this thread.
they have no reason to be, yet I still get messages where they at least feign that they are quite upset in a very personal way
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:12 PM   #244
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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Quote:
(Personally, I suspect I play well against shorties as I am attentive to stack sizes before the hand is dealt.)
You don't. You think you do. I've seen only a handful of people have any sort of clue what they're doing, which is why Choo Choo is wonderful.

you mean that even after this thread that the sky hasn't fallen!
OMGZ
I thought this info was supposed to ruin our games forever.

I once thought that, but it appears it is mainly paranoia. Sharing this info changed very little IMO.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:32 PM   #245
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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this is a good thread and I am glad it is in a format that makes it hard for the common fish to implement. my Q, I only have exp SSing FR games for 10k hands ( 1.5 days basically) what does your PT stats come out to in 6m. In FR i played a 9/8.5 style that won over 2/100.
I suck and run nittier than most
IIRC, I'm at 16/14 or something.
The elite ss'ers who really know stuff run at 19/16 to 22/20.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:50 PM   #246
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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you do realize quite a few shortstackers, the ones mentioned here, are making 10k+ per month, right?
wow they 12(now 24) table and play a lot of hands. its not tough. you also say that, yet I have yet to see one FR SSer post a screen shot with win rates, or a graph. Ive only seen 1 or 2 from 6m SSers. so either all of them are worried everyone will find out SSing is the best thing ever, or their win rate is very marginal and nothing to brag about.


from what I saw your info isn't really anything amazing, and anyone with a clue should be able to at worst break even vs a SSer in their games. anyone good should be able to exploit a style that bases play completely on stats/math
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #247
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

oh ya, btw:

1. no way you post this stuff if you played on FTP or Stars(a major site)

2. no way you would have posted this is everyone liked/accepted SSer, and didn't hate them.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #248
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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Quote:
you do realize quite a few shortstackers, the ones mentioned here, are making 10k+ per month, right?
wow they 12(now 24) table and play a lot of hands. its not tough. you also say that, yet I have yet to see one FR SSer post a screen shot with win rates, or a graph. Ive only seen 1 or 2 from 6m SSers. so either all of them are worried everyone will find out SSing is the best thing ever, or their win rate is very marginal and nothing to brag about.


from what I saw your info isn't really anything amazing, and anyone with a clue should be able to at worst break even vs a SSer in their games. anyone good should be able to exploit a style that bases play completely on stats/math
You are so so so sooooooooooooo wrong. And bad at understanding basic theory as well.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #249
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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Quote:
you do realize quite a few shortstackers, the ones mentioned here, are making 10k+ per month, right?
wow they 12(now 24) table and play a lot of hands. its not tough. you also say that, yet I have yet to see one FR SSer post a screen shot with win rates, or a graph. Ive only seen 1 or 2 from 6m SSers. so either all of them are worried everyone will find out SSing is the best thing ever, or their win rate is very marginal and nothing to brag about.


from what I saw your info isn't really anything amazing, and anyone with a clue should be able to at worst break even vs a SSer in their games. anyone good should be able to exploit a style that bases play completely on stats/math
i wasn't talking about the 12 tablers

you should really talk to guys that datamine instead of just assuming they don't make $$$$$--then again, I know you're in an active counter-espionage campaign
this thread has some of the better HSNL players admitting that the dataminers show shorties winning at 25/50 blinds on stars

my info is enough to make a winner, though it isn't amazing as no ss'er really shared with me and it was all I could decipher on my own

break-even verse the SSer implies changing your whole game to play a 20BB game well, which sacrifices EV in a 100+BB game
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Old 11-16-2007, 05:12 PM   #250
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Re: M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

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Quote:
Quote:
you do realize quite a few shortstackers, the ones mentioned here, are making 10k+ per month, right?
wow they 12(now 24) table and play a lot of hands. its not tough. you also say that, yet I have yet to see one FR SSer post a screen shot with win rates, or a graph. Ive only seen 1 or 2 from 6m SSers. so either all of them are worried everyone will find out SSing is the best thing ever, or their win rate is very marginal and nothing to brag about.


from what I saw your info isn't really anything amazing, and anyone with a clue should be able to at worst break even vs a SSer in their games. anyone good should be able to exploit a style that bases play completely on stats/math
You are so so so sooooooooooooo wrong. And bad at understanding basic theory as well.
aren't you MrsGrimstar? ROFL.

I'll take my ignorance, and lack of theory(in your mind), as long as it makes me a lot more $$$ than anyone else posting in this thread.

I really don't care, as i don't think anyone reading this thread to change their style will ever be playing in the same games as me. its only promoting the same mediocrity/grinding mentality that way too many players in FR forum have already. i guess if they are looking for easy money short term then its not bad, but there is a reason why there are VERY few winning SSers @ high stakes.
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