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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 02-12-2018, 12:57 PM   #1
fghexe
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flush over flush? tough spot

MP1 is an aggrofish with stats VPIP 73 PFR 39 3bet 28.1. over 100 hands. had a couple of hands with him before where he drew his hand on a FD board with a standard line: small blocking bet /call a huge RR flop and turn, the river with missed draw - check/fold

BTN is a tag with stats VPIP 18 PFR 14 3bet 2.4 over 1.1k hands.

at the turn I got more concerned about the maniac than the tag (crying call or just drawing nuts) and actually was suspicious of the flush considering maniacs line and history. So my option was in fact between a shove or fold. I was more inclined to shove but on second thoughts his line was quite dangerous. Is it +EV shoving the turn at such a spot in the long run?


    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: $3.16 (63.2 bb)
    BB: $4.71 (94.2 bb)
    UTG+1: $5.42 (108.4 bb)
    UTG+2: $5 (100 bb)
    MP1: $10.85 (217 bb)
    MP2: $5.24 (104.8 bb)
    MP3: $5 (100 bb)
    Hero (CO): $6.97 (139.4 bb)
    BTN: $5.45 (109 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 8 9
    2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.35, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

    Flop: ($1.12) Q 3 4 (3 players)
    MP1 bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, BTN calls $0.20

    Turn: ($1.72) 7 (3 players)
    MP1 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.20, BTN calls $1.20, MP1 raises to $2.20, [color="red"]

    Hero?

    Spoiler:
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    Old 02-13-2018, 10:49 AM   #2
    nonsimplesimon
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    You should tag button as a bad reg.

    I think this is a sick hand... It's a tough spot because say if you call and button raises (as he should have) then say mp1 shoves and you're stuck in the middle you have to fold. As played ott you hit and it's pretty clear that both guys really like their hand. BU is smooth calling suspiciously and the other idiot just clicks back. They're crying for action. It's pretty easy to pin point that on a forum but in real time when you haven't seen a good hand for a while and it's the micros when you have several tables up it's hard to fold there and pin it as bad luck but if you can take a moment and assess this situation thoughtfully it's pretty clear what's going on.

    fyi - don't post results ever - even in a spoiler. welcome to the forums.
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    Old 02-13-2018, 06:14 PM   #3
    fghexe
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    many thanks. Your thoughts are really helpful.

    I did tag the BU immediately. He really played that hand awful. I agree with you that having a look at the line for a tad longer and more carefully and it gets clear. Actually when I was reviewing the hand off the table I came to the decision as yours.

    I wonder how would you have played the hand if the fish'd called and a brick'd rolled off on the river and the fish'd checked?
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    Old 02-14-2018, 01:50 AM   #4
    nonsimplesimon
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    Well spr is tight. Might just shove river.

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    Old 02-16-2018, 04:56 AM   #5
    Gabe16
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
    You should tag button as a bad reg.

    I think this is a sick hand... It's a tough spot because say if you call and button raises (as he should have) then say mp1 shoves and you're stuck in the middle you have to fold. As played ott you hit and it's pretty clear that both guys really like their hand. BU is smooth calling suspiciously and the other idiot just clicks back. They're crying for action. It's pretty easy to pin point that on a forum but in real time when you haven't seen a good hand for a while and it's the micros when you have several tables up it's hard to fold there and pin it as bad luck but if you can take a moment and assess this situation thoughtfully it's pretty clear what's going on.

    fyi - don't post results ever - even in a spoiler. welcome to the forums.


    Pretty much this!

    The click back is a massive give away here, Iíd still worry over tag. Iím letting more of these go than before but it is hard. The main point here is that there are so many more combos of flush cards MP can have that are beating you than you beat.

    At each point your getting great pot odds. The iso in pos vs the limp is fine, you get 4.6-1 on the 3B call pre and even though btn rarely has anything other than value hands here (Btn already has a typical value range overall, and 3B an iso with a fish that doesnít fold wonít incline him to widen that range even on the btn) I think the calls ok because of the extra value a fish brings to the pot. I can fold pre or call and feel fine about it.

    The question on the flop is whether to raise or not. I donít think you have enough hand equity to make up for the complete lack of fold equity here to raise. But we certainly canít fold either. Itís an odd situation.

    The river action as stated already is that telegraphed that on paper and in hindsight itís always a fold. But table times a different animal. Donít feel bad about it. Use it to help recognise future problems instead.

    Also find me a way to listen to my own advice if at all possible!


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    Old 02-23-2018, 05:24 PM   #6
    fghexe
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    thank you very much indeed for such detailed comments.

    I don't usually play FD aggressively versus fish unless I have a monster draw, because as you mentioned the fold equity is almost zero. so flop was played out pretty standard.

    thank you again for encouraging. it's hard to fold such hands especially if all you did from the point you were dealt your hole cards was intended to hit what you hit. it's tough but making tough folds will significantly improve your winrate in the end. So I have to be able to make them.
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    Old 02-23-2018, 05:27 PM   #7
    fghexe
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    Re: flush over flush? tough spot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
    Well spr is tight. Might just shove river.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    thanks. got your point
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