16nl zoom on pokerstars, 120bb effective

I raise 10h10d from button, SB calls, BB calls.

(Pot 8.62bb) Flop comes 8c 4h 2s, SB checks, BB leads out for pot, I call, SB folds.

(Pot 25.86bb) Turn comes 9s, once again BB leads out for pot, I call.

(Pot 77.58) River comes 10s, BB leads out for 25 BB

Hero...?

Hero just rivered basically the nuts, ships it in and hopes to get called by worse sets and maybe even 2 pair.

You have top set bruh, ship it.

Here’s a better question. What would make you think that shoving here might be a wrong play?

Sorry guys, I should have mentioned did shove the river. Was more curious about whether I should have gotten to the river there 10s? His line looked pretty strong, like a set. Would anyone have folded the turn here? I find usually in these spots you're either against an overpair or a set.

Two things about the pot bet. 1. I seriously doubt v has enough bluffs here. 2. Nevertheless, I'm not sure I can find a fold. Probably a leak on my part.

I think you have to fold turn.

I seriously considered folding but I thought the leads looked a bit spewey if he had a good hand wouldn't he try to let me hang myself?

Should the BB have a leading range multiway on that flop?

BB should not have a leading range here at all even heads up it’s extremely fishy.

Imo, if BB uses a donking strategy, he should have a leading range on this flop generally bc it smashes his pf range. Maybe he should be more likely to lead mw bc opponents are less likely to bet/cbet? But mw also requires his leading range to be more face up, so those factors may cancel out.

FWIW, I don't generally donk unless i'm against someone who's weak bc I don't like splitting my range.

As for villain's thinking, he may have been afraid you'd x mw if x'ed to, but might call a bet. Who knows? Maybe a fly landed on his mouse as he hovered over the full pot button, and he was trying to kill it. The only way to begin understanding v's thinking is to see the sd.

What did v have? I'm guessing 44 or 22, but he could have had something like 65s or 63s. Lol

Yeah I wasn't sure really, thought he probably had a set and was just a weaker player.

He called and showed 10c8d lol, guess he was just super spewy.

This is wrong. BB absolutely has a donking range on an all low board. Nothing "extremely fishy" about it.

I ran BTN vs BB through GTO+ and it has BB checking 100% of the time on this board, am I doing something wrong?

I’ve always thought that checking 100% of bb defends was completely standard, and certainly less complicated then splitting your range in two and effectively doubling your game tree.

GTO+ only works when 2 players see the flop.

This is 3 way.

The BB is incentivized to bet some of their good hands for value since the PFR won't always cbet.

I really haven't got into using an RNG postflop, but I think using it for donking purposes could work.

You can just randomize anytime you would normally XR, and split it however you want.

Flop is Jc 7d 3c and you have either 54cc or 77.

Now you can randomize to say donk 20% and XR 80%

Interesting. I have access to monker but didn’t want to spend the time running a 3way tree. I’ll have to do that later tonight, thanks for the info

Edit: and also thanks for correcting me and not letting me spread bad info.

The OP was definitely a bit misleading in the way it was written, as for the actual question I would probably have folded turn or even flop. V donking full pot should almost always be a set or 2 pair, in this case you basically got lucky and V was a complete fish. Despite the result of the actual hand I think this should have been a fold.

Someone mentioned this is 3-way, but did you allow OOP to bet in your HU sim? I'd be very surprised if GTO never donks this flop.

I always mix in donks on these low boards OOP (mostly 8 or 9 high or less) with the use of an RNG with about 1/3 donk, 1/3 x/c or x/f, and 1/3 x/r depending on the exact board and/or my actual holding. It's probably not exactly "solver approved" but I figure usually it should be about close enough and it is should be way better EV-wise than never donking at all.

Interesting thread.

Based on my understanding of donking as BBvsBU HU postflop, I didn't think this was a donk. My understanding was (based on what I recall from the Kanu7 course) it's usually lower and connected boards for BBvsBU, with the height of the board that BB can donk going up as you move back to the positions to UTG.

I checked in GTOWizard, and it has BB donking 0.3% on this board, so basically never.



Now for comparison here is, 652r



As you can see here BB has a significant donking range, primarily using a smaller sizing but also mixing with the bigger sizing. My understanding is that big blind prefers to donk on these connected boards where they will have some straights that button might not have.

These are just my thoughts and GTOWizard's sims. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with my understanding of what boards BB should be donking on.

All of these GTOWizard Sims assume 100bb pre-flop stacks.

Villain has 44/22 a lot here I would think. If he's got 88 or 76 he's a complete donkey. As played, ship river. But I'd think about folding the turn.

Raising flop for value. And I'm a nit.

I did accidentally run it once without allowing a bet, but when I allowed aggressive action from OOP, it added a .2% donking range, which for all intents and purposes is zero. Maybe if I played around with sizings or ran it through monker and gave it multiple bet sizes to choose from it would be more likely to bet OOP.

Okay, I guess I was just wrong about an 8-high disconnected rainbow flop then. It should become a good donking spot if the high card was lower (maybe a 6) and more connected though.

Btw, this is how I learn these things.

I would probably fold turn. Maybe that's too nitty but I usually trust fish in these spots.

fold pre