NL50 river 2 pairs - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL50 river 2 pairs

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02-28-2012 , 09:54 AM

Drugiz

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 303

Prima No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Prima Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($83.93)
Button ($50)
SB ($213.24)
Hero (BB) ($57.93)
UTG ($50)
MP ($52.07)

oponent fish 58/14 after 88hands river agg 2.5

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, 10

2 folds, CO bets $1.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 9

, K

, 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.25, Hero calls $3.25

Turn: ($9.75) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($9.75) 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $4.75, CO raises $24, Hero ?

Is pre ok against this kind of player?
River?

Thanks in advance

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02-28-2012 , 10:10 AM

udo lattek

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 184

fold pre. He isnt raising many hands that you dominate -> depends on the played and his postflop tendencies if calling is good. given your describtion i would not call OOP, IP i am calling or Isolating him if he is passive in 3bet pots.

postflop the hand is hard to play as you dont provide more insight. I would play it the same ( bet 3/4 pot OTR) and fold to the raise.

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02-28-2012 , 10:32 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

3bet pre for value, they raise all sort of weird **** and ain't folding to a lot of 3bets. As played I'm folding river, he likely hit his sTR8

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02-28-2012 , 10:35 AM

udo lattek

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back off Kiddo

3bet pre for value, they raise all sort of weird **** and ain't folding to a lot of 3bets. As played I'm folding river, he likely hit his sTR8

bad advice. 14% isnt all kinds of junk and we have to assume that he is flat happy with hands that dominate us. given the describtion 3betting is calling for trouble with a hand like KT that is likely dominated and there are very little scenarios in which we get a board that makes us stack off and be happy about it.

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02-28-2012 , 10:45 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

you have to know his limping and raising range here to justify an action. If he limps KQ and strong stuff like that makes this a golden 3bet spot since he isn't raising hands that beats us. Most fish generally limp broadways and raise weird stuff so that's why I auto 3bet it.

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02-28-2012 , 10:46 AM

Drugiz

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 303

I just called it pre because this kind of players makes lots of mistakes postflop.
3betting I dont know, it makes more difficult, the pot is bigger. and his calling 3 bet range is probably mostly better than ours.

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02-28-2012 , 10:51 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

Have you seen him open raising in the past and seen what hands he show up with?

The thing is, if this kid opens "junk" like T9s, he isn't folding to a 3bet.

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02-28-2012 , 11:36 AM

Drugiz

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 303

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back off Kiddo

Have you seen him open raising in the past and seen what hands he show up with?

The thing is, if this kid opens "junk" like T9s, he isn't folding to a 3bet.

no, thats why I just called. Without this information do you still think that 3bet is better than calling, or you thing calling is the worst option at all?

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02-28-2012 , 11:39 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

It's generally better to have initiative vs fish (you control the pot and can value bet him) than the other way around. I have found out that most fish with an opening range usually limp the stronger side of broadways and raise other crap, so you will often have an equity edge on him I believe.

He is also not going to call your 3bet 100% of the time, you will win the pot in many other ways even if he happens to have a somewhat stronger range than you. So I believe 3betting this hand is better than calling OOP vs the fisho.

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02-28-2012 , 11:47 AM

#10

Franchise804

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,128

folding pre > 3-betting pre > calling pre

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02-28-2012 , 12:03 PM

#11

Drugiz

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 303

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise804

folding pre > 3-betting pre > calling pre

sorry if its a stupid question, but why folding here is better then calling against fish?

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02-28-2012 , 12:07 PM

#12

rakeme

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 6,715

Your call pre is fine vs. this type of villain. Vs. a decent reg obviously this would be a fold pre. Some people aren't comfortable playing postflop poker OOP, so I guess 3betting isn't all that bad here. I'm never folding this preflop though vs. a fish, that's real bad imo.

As played, fold. I'd have bet closer to pot on the river for value though.

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02-28-2012 , 12:11 PM

#13

Franchise804

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,128

no stupid questions, my friend.

fish is loose-passive and you have KTo which doesn't play well vs 14% even if fish is on the btn.

KTs, KJs = call...KQs+ = 3bet for value

feel free to disagree and tell me why. this is a conversation, not an argument

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02-28-2012 , 12:13 PM

#14

Franchise804

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakeme

If I am going to call OOP with a weak hand I'd at least like some fold equity to make up for my lowered true equity.

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02-28-2012 , 12:15 PM

#15

rakeme

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 6,715

We have like no fold equity usually, so all we're really doing is bloating the pot and playing OOP. I do prefer 3bet to fold though, but I still think calling is better than 3betting and folding.

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02-28-2012 , 05:08 PM

#16

Drugiz

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 303

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise804

the main reason why I am calling here is because its a fish. I agree that vs 14% open its not the best thing but overall than we have 5regs and one fish at the table I think we have to play even KT oop. I like to play as much hands as possible againts 58/14 and my profit comes not from red line here but from blue one

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02-28-2012 , 06:31 PM

#17

Big Jon 21

adept

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 822

What was our river bet targeting?

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02-28-2012 , 06:36 PM

#18

ved

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Jon 21

What was our river bet targeting?

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02-28-2012 , 06:43 PM

#19

Big Jon 21

adept

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 822

What Kx bets flop and checks turn?

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02-28-2012 , 08:19 PM

#20

Siti_11

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 217

Kx and Tx mostly. it would be a big mistake to check back here on the river against this opponent imo.

would bet bigger on river. fold to raise is probably correct since he plays 86 and QJ this way and full house also a decent amount.

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02-28-2012 , 09:11 PM

#21

Big Jon 21

adept

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 822

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siti_11

Kx and Tx?? I can't imagine too many Kx hands that bet pot on this dry flop and then check turn when the spade comes. I think his range is mostly QJ for the nut straight and AsJs, AsQs. I guess villain could have KT or K9 or something but thats about it. B/F makes us make too many mistakes and allows villain to play better imo. I guess I just disagree about villains current range otr.

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02-28-2012 , 09:17 PM

#22

As1an1nvas1on

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,352

i wouldnt say 3bet would be for value pre, but it gives us initiative against a villain that will play super straight forward post flop and easy to play against

but fold >>>>> 3bet >>>>>>>>>call

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