Hi, my question about sammy results is just one, be positive in both aspects is much more profitable then be with graphs like yours mpethybridge?? he can be a winner, but not that much as you.
Thanks and congratz for the good work

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. rephrase or expand?

he is saying one of us is better at poker than the other. I am just not sure who and why.

posting to read later

you can select "subscribe to thread" in the menus. That will prevent everyone else who is subscribed from seeing a pointless bump.

hi xl nice red line graph, can you show me ur positional stats. i just wana see what sort of style/ stats ur playing.
Anyone else that has a positive red line that wants to post graphs aswell, id really like to see

my red line is + whenever i play 16/13 or looser at FR

hey split can u post some positional stats, that will give me a better idea of ur playing style thanks.
Also i came up with a thought... i think its easier to have a winning red line playing full ring than 6 max, the blinds just dont eat you up as much in fr.
what do you guys think?
nice thread btw one of the best ive read about the red line for sure

Hi mpethybridge,

This has to be one of the best threads I have ever read. I have been trying to fix leaks in my game and was told my red line is far too low.

I would really appreciate if you could give me some insight as to your thoughts on why I can't get it higher.

50NL FR 19.2/14.8/3.8% 3bet, 2.49 aggression

I start tables a lot, so am often playing 2-3 handed so maybe that is why my vpip/pfr is a little higher.

My flop cbet is 67.1% and turn cbet is 54.4%.

This is over 89,652 hands since April 1st (a month and a half).

Thank you very much.

LAG sample at 50NL



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You are a sick sick blind player

remember those are big BB/100, so it's pretty much right on track =)

Excellent example. If you look at this example, this is exactly what I mean. People with negative red lines are buying 10 pipes for $10 (these are the blinds). Then they try to earn them back by selling them for 90 cents (playing in the other positions). Then they say on this forum that they earned only $9 for 10 pipes and ask themselves why they lost 10%. They blame the blinds, when actually this is not the problem. The problem is that their prize is too cheap!

Do you get it yet?

Ive just gotta give some love to this. This is single handedly THE best post on this forum. Lets delete it now eh folks

thnks for doing this, it help my game a lot

Hi, first of all great post. My redline has been killing me so I used the suggested filters to check out what I was doing wrong. I decided to post the results and my assumptions on how to improve my results.

I’m looking for some feedback on my assumptions since I’m unsure they’re right or not and maybe to point out some things I might’ve missed.

As you can see my redline is quite devastating:



Stats in bb/100 are:

sb -21,42
bb -52,61
btn 24,76
co 16,13
mp 12,72
ep 12,34

So I started with looking at Cold Call=true from SB and BB:



Quite big leak here since I’m call/folding a lot especially with small pocket pairs and aces with a weak kicker so I’ll stop coldcalling with them and 3bet or fold instead.

Next filter I used is coldcall=true and called cbet=true (from all positions):



Very small sample. About half of the hands were from SB (+256,87 bb/100) and BB (125,99 bb/100). I was losing slightly from EP and MP calling with small pocket pairs and chasing a set or open ender. I’ll be folding these hands preflop in the future. Overall it seems to be fine for now (?)

I continued with 3bet=true from SB/BB excluding AA,KK,QQ,AK:


Seems to be fine in general. Think I should consider adding more hands to my restealing range.
However I’m not doing so well when I add the sawflop=true filter:



When I add the cbet=true filter I get slightly positive results. But then again it’s a small sample so I’m not really sure whether I’m doing the right thing or not. When I have a decent sample on villain I’d decide whether to cbet or not depending on his 3bet calling range and board structure.

I continued looking at my stealing results using PFR=true, unopened pot=true and positions co, btn and sb:



When looking at holecards these were the hands I lost most $ with: 22, 33 , A2s, Q9o, K7, suited and unsuited gappers 10 high, suited and unsuited connectors 8 high. Considering to drop the worst end of those type of hands. Unsure about 33 / 22. Against nits I won’t drop them.

Then I used the following filters to check out my cbet success
PFR=true and cbet=true:


Stats by position in bb/100:
sb 277,43
bb 378,99
btn 270,78
co 341,12
mp 341,83
ep 472,99

and PFR=true, cbet=true, sawturn=true:


Stats by position in bb/100:
sb 245,75
bb 167,02
btn 53,91 (but -8,55$ net) -> I think I cbet way too much from the button on bad boards
co 362,48
mp 273,08
ep 588,14

and PFR=true, cbet=true, turn cbet=true:


Stats by position in bb/100:
sb 975,75
bb 1549,76
btn 583,81
co 753,71
mp 451,88
ep 1091,59

Flop cbet graph seems fine. When I get to the turn my redline goes negative though so I suppose I’m missing out on some profitable double barrels or I flop cbet a bit too much on bad boards leaving me in an awkward spot on the turn. I think this is especially true from the button.

Now I’m wondering whether I’m interpreting the stats well and also if I’m missing something here. I definitely noticed some spots where I need to improve but I really think I’m missing something when I look at my overall graph. My brain is pretty fried atm so I'll reread the original post tomorrow, hope I'm not asking questions already answered in there. Any help will be greatly appreciated

EZ:

Nice analysis of your stats. A few things I'd like to mention:

Just based on your win rates you posted at the beginning of your post, I agree that you have major leaks in the blinds. You also have significant leaks from the cut off and the button, as those win rates are substantially lower than most solid winners post.

In red line terms, your red line goes down to much as a result of blind play, and doesn't go up enough as a result of late position stealing play. The combination of too much down pressure and not enough upward pressure results in a net redline that is too much down.

I also agree with you that your cold calling from the blinds appears to be a leak, and that small pocket pairs and weak aces are problem hands from the blinds. The solution, however, is not necessarily just folding. Make sure, for example, that you go ahead and keep calling with small pocket pairs from the blinds in multiway pots and against strong ranges that can pay off a set.

I very often also see that people have a significant leak in the way they play their hands post flop from the blinds. To check to see if you might have such a leak, run cold call = true and filter for the broadway hands and TT and JJ as a group. If this group of hands is negative in even a small sample, it is cause for suspicion that you are frequently misplaying hands from the blinds.

The same thing goes for your stealing from position. I wouldn't tighten my stealing range by eliminating individual hands, as there is going to be a lot of randomness in which hands we are unprofitable with. Instead, I would look to see if a pattern emerges. You mentioned being negative with K7 and Q7--what I would do, rather than fold those hands, is to look at my hand histories and try to determine why I was negative. For example, maybe you were dominated by the caller a few times and paid off too many streets on average? Or maybe you just keep missing the flop and having your c-bet called. In the first case, we'd be looking at a potential post flop leak that you could either plug by taking different lines in the future (the optimal adjustment) or avoid by folding (suboptimal adjustment). In the second case, it would just be variance that we shrugged off.

C-betting steals too much is a very common leak for aggressive micro players. Learning when it is best to give up and when to apply showdown value concepts to your flop c-betting decisions are both pretty advanced concepts that micro players haven't been exposed to much. So this may be a problem for you. I'm ok with a button flop c-bet frequency of about 70%. I prefer it to be a few points lower, to be honest, but I don't pressure people at 70% to reduce it. But the higher you are above 70%, the more likely it is that you are making a significant number of flop c-betting mistakes. So check this stat and do hand history reviews of your flop c-bets if you are above 70%. You'll be looking for flops you should have either given up on because you missed and it is a bad board to c-bet, or boards where you caught a piece but a c-bet could really only get called by a range that beat you, and you probably should have checked back for pot control and to open up the villain's calling and betting ranges.

Your 3 betting results look ok to me, but I can't be sure. Normally, if your non-premium 3 betting range is mostly semi-bluffing hands, I would expect a slightly negative win rate for 3 bet = true and saw flop = true. BUT if your range is primarily light value other than premiums, then I would expect a slightly positive win rate. So whether saw flop = true is showing us a 3 betting leak really just depends on which hands you have been 3 betting from the blinds to date. Take a second look at your actual range after your brain unfries, and make this judgment for yourself.

I'm not a big fan of high 3 betting frequencies at the micros. Be careful about adding resteals. If your premiums account for 2/3-1/2 of your 3 bets from the blinds, you are more or less where I would normally recommend. If you are getting away with more than 1/2 bluffs, good for you, keep at it, and maybe experiment with a few more. If you are below 1/3 bluffs, you definitely need to resteal more. Otherwise, it is unlikely this is a significant issue.

I think I covered everything. If not, feel free to follow up with additional questions.

bump to prevent COTW from being archived

Great post! This have improve my redline from a strict 45 down to almost flat!

Wiltontilt vrote a article about non showdown winnings witch was also good, anyone know where i can find it? Have google it for like 15 min now

This guy is a genius - I think it will take my lifetime to understand this fully (hopefully not!)

"Please note that the number of cold calls went down, and the win rate went up. This is a dirt simple adjustment: I went to my holecards report, found a few hands that I was calling from the blinds and then losing more than if I had just folded them, and I deselected them in the hole cards tab. I found 83 cold calls that had cost me -$470, and I deleted them. If I had folded these hands, I would have only lost about $120. Thus, I can improve my results by $350 by folding these hands rather than calling with them. This makes perfect sense, if you choose the right hands. If I defend my BB with JTs, most of the time I am losing by check/folding the flop. I take a 3.0-3.5bb loss every time I check fold. Once I realize I can't defend profitably with JTs, I take my 1 bb loss per hand, yielding a 2bb improvement in my red line."

So instead of calling from blinds , should i either fold or 3bet? Or just fold most hands?

So instead of calling from blinds , should i either fold or 3bet? Or just fold most hands?

It depends of what YOU find in YOUR dB
Most likely there are hands that u should not have cc from the blinds.

+1

I was just saying to look at the hands you cold call with, and remove from your cold calling range the hands your DB indicates that you cannot profitably cold call with.

Identifying hands that are unprofitable for you, however, is quite a bit more complicated than simply looking for hands that you're losing money with. You will have to apply some logic and review some hand histories to reach a decision.

"If you are a quality c-bettor, your stats will look like this:

Filter in HEM: PFR=true, Flop C-Bet made = true.

Depending on how proficient you are, you will see a win rate of about 250bb/100 to 450bb/100.

Add the filter C-bet turn = True. Your win rate should increase to about 400bb/100 to about 600bb/100."



Can you please explain where that filter is , i looked in the HM menus and didn't see anything like that.

On the Reports Tab, Click Filter, then click More Filters. Under PreFlop Filters double click PFR=True, then under Flop Filters double click Flop Continuation Bet Made = True. The for turn one add Turn Continuation Bet Made = True under the Turn Filters.

Hope thats what your looking for.