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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 12-28-2009, 05:41 PM   #151
OoLethaLoO
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD View Post
I like Splits' post a lot. But I think everyone would benefit GREATLY if they stop with the
"I want to be a LAG", "I am going to play a LAG style today", "I need to learn more LAG techniques"

just stop it.

Good poker players have TAG and LAG games or whatever you want to LABEL it, because they learn to recognize profitable situations:
1)I can float this guy profitable
2)This guy does not defend his blinds
3) I can 3bet wider for Value against this guy
4) That board is super scary for him, he can only continue with X
5) Everyone is a POW here, time to focus on sick fat value
etc..
Split has done a good job putting more tools in your tool box, and wrote a great manual, but everything is not a nail....
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Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
QFT (about myself).

Another reason is despite hundreds of hours on this board, many of us haven't truly broken the idea that poker is about pushing people off of hands with sick betting.

Finally, we aren't good enough to recognize that you play TAG when it is most profitable to play TAG and play LAG when it is most profitable to play LAG, not play TAG or LAG no matter what. If we ever got good, we'd be able to switch styles hand to hand if necessary.

+1000000 trying to play LAG vs a table full of stations who hate folding is never going to make you any money. i know people love to put cool labels on their playing style and want to embrace a certain style to call their own, but ive been trying to say this forever...its not about having a certain style, ITS ABOUT ADJUSTMENT.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:44 PM   #152
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

It's definately about adjustment. One of the hardest things for me to learn is how to adjust to other TAGs. Since I worked my way up, I still find myself in the mindset of looking for fat value against Fish and aggro tards. Learning ways to take advantage of TAGs is just another weapon in my arsenal. I still make most of my money off of fish and bad LAGs, but its nice to be able to eek out a profit on TAGs as well. Now if only I could figure out how to attack the damn good lags.....
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:04 PM   #153
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

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ITS ABOUT ADJUSTMENT.
mother effing bingO
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:31 AM   #154
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

sick post. +EV.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:55 AM   #155
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

Amazing post Split.

I loved everything except for your deffinition of LAG:

Quote:
You see LAGs focus everything on LP play, with heavy emphasis in the CO and button. This doesn't vary at all from TAGs, as TAGs are very positionally aware and ramp up how many hands they play as they get closer to the button. But LAGs take this a step further and start adding more hands a bit sooner, and also add even more hands from the CO and button. A TAG might only steal 35%, while a LAG is constantly focused on pressuring every edge and may be stealing around 60%. This is your first step in transitioning to a LAG...you don't just randomly jump from 13/11 to 20/18...you ease into it and get used to playing more hands, adding initially on the button, then the CO, then the HJ, etc.
This is still solid TAG play and EVERYONE should learn it if they wish to progress beyond the micros. The vast majority of us are at the micros to learn not earn. As the game continues to get tougher it becomes more important to maximize winrates. It may cut down on the number of tables played but notice high stake pros aren't playing 6+ tables and I am willing to make a PSB they make more/hr then the best micro grinder...but I digress.

As Split explains it this style isn't about pre flop numbers at all but learning to aply more pressure when proffitable to do so. It is about learning to play situationaly and increasing the number of proffitable hands in your arsenol and playing your opponents and their cards as well as your own.

So what is my deffinition of LAG? It doesn't belong in this well written post.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:57 AM   #156
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

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Originally Posted by poloboy4 View Post
sick post. +EV.
thank you =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gestch01 View Post
Amazing post Split.

I loved everything except for your deffinition of LAG:



This is still solid TAG play and EVERYONE should learn it if they wish to progress beyond the micros. The vast majority of us are at the micros to learn not earn. As the game continues to get tougher it becomes more important to maximize winrates. It may cut down on the number of tables played but notice high stake pros aren't playing 6+ tables and I am willing to make a PSB they make more/hr then the best micro grinder...but I digress.

As Split explains it this style isn't about pre flop numbers at all but learning to aply more pressure when proffitable to do so. It is about learning to play situationaly and increasing the number of proffitable hands in your arsenol and playing your opponents and their cards as well as your own.

So what is my deffinition of LAG? It doesn't belong in this well written post.
glad you liked it. if you come up with a better definition i will consider editing the OP =)
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:14 PM   #157
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

What about opening any Axs? Here is my reasoning:

1. In terms of pure equity, A2s is actually better than KQs or any other unpaired non-A hand. If you flop the nut flush draw you're also at least 40% against a typical range. Since its equity is as good as KQs and I always open KQs, I don't think playing Axs can be much of a mistake. It's not even that tough to play postflop.
2. It has a lot of cooler potential. People will play AK strong on a flop like A46 rainbow and you'll be there with A6s. They won't have any safe flops and this is helpful for balance. Similarly, when raising UTG, people will put you on a strong range and try to hit a flush with 76s etc. but you'll have the nut flush. Another case might be when again someone calls your raise with a speculative hand like 89s and the flop is 88K. You will hold A8s and the best trips. Easy game. All this cooler potential should make up for the small pots lost when you have TP but are outkicked.
3. Your bluffs will be more effective. Since you'll often have a flush draw and an A on the turn will also be very real, bluffs will get more respect.
4. Most weak A will fold to your raise so domination is not a big issue. For example, I expect A2o-A9o to fold to our raise. It's also not as if you'll play A6s for a big pot when hitting TP.

If this is too much, how about opening A2s-A5s and A9s+ UTG while opening any Axs in every other position. The wheel potential should matter more than the better kicker against a tight range. For example, in terms of kicker, I am playing A2s the same as A8s.

Leak or good for a LAG with strong postflop skills?

BTW: I don't think one should call raises with Axs unless there is a caller in front.

Last edited by suncar; 02-03-2010 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:54 PM   #158
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

The above was regarding 6-max not full-ring. Sorry! I didn't realize it was the full-ring section.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:33 PM   #159
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

I know it's been a couple years but I want to say thanks for this great post. I'm currently playing 4NL on Merge and would love to try this but I'm not sure if that's such a good idea. Like others have said, I guess it depends on how tight the tables generally are and wether or not players are willing to fold.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:07 PM   #160
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

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I know it's been a couple years but I want to say thanks for this great post. I'm currently playing 4NL on Merge and would love to try this but I'm not sure if that's such a good idea. Like others have said, I guess it depends on how tight the tables generally are and wether or not players are willing to fold.
glad you enjoyed it =)
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:38 PM   #161
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

Anti-Archive bump.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:50 PM   #162
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

People might call me a LAG. I play more hands than TAGs. But I think what people do not know about is that because you are looser in your hand selections than more people it does not mean you are not tight.

There's two forms of tightness in my opinion...

Hand Selection and How You Play Your Money.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:40 PM   #163
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

please be the second coming of joyofpoker please please please
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:20 AM   #164
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

In case you are wondering why all the bumps for cotw threads. 2+2 is about to update the forum software and will be archiving all threads that have not been active since last February. Since the COTW threads are invaluable I am going back through cotw threads from 20009. Trying to do it all in one go during the night to lessen annoyance of taking up space in the unl forum.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:02 PM   #165
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

A few years ago, when I first started taking poker seriously I played on the nit side of a standard TAG player. After taking a long poker break, I returned and began playing HU only, both cash & sngs. Since I'm on merge right now and hate playing super-turbo husng's, I've gotten back into micro-full ring. With-out thinking my full-ring game had changed, as the stats kept building I was surprised to find out that I had naturally started playing more LAGgy. In short playing heads-up and studying HU strategy, especially aspects on how to wisely apply aggression, will make you better at hand reading and playing weaker flop holdings when applying those skills in a FR game.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:34 PM   #166
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

This COTW is also very interesting in regards to llsnl as well since it has helped me see how some obvious winning online players approach nits and fish in brick and mortar settings. I was often stumbled by their play and couldn't quite figure them out, but never felt the need to really crack their playing style since these lags are so rare and the majority of players are fish and nits. I would definitely like to try and implement some of these ideas into llsnl, but I think the importance of adjustment is just as important as in online play. There are definitely situations, like super juicy friday night games at the casino, where a lag style would simply not be the most profitable.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:31 AM   #167
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

I played at NL2 with TAG style MSS. 10/8
I moved up to NL5 FR and I played LAG style MSS.

Here is my Graph

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Old 03-10-2014, 10:56 AM   #168
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

Brilliant.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:56 PM   #169
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

I have been trying to switch to a LAG style at 25 NL 6 max, I played 4k hands this week and ended up at 27/22, does this sound about right?
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:48 PM   #170
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Re: COTW: Becoming A LAG

^ nah yo I know a good 27/22 full ring reg. Gotta get that VPIP into the 30s to be a true LAG at 6 max.
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