Oh man, I can't wait to see the effects this CotW on the tables.

No joke.

If it is anything like the effects of the squeeze COTW...it should be a fun week =)

I lol'd. Great CoTW Split!

Still confused...why would a fish at the table turn you into a TAG? It may loosen up your TAG opponents a bit, but that seems like a good thing since they'll be stuck playing a range that's out of their comfort zone, creating more pressure points if anything.

There's no need to tighten up preflop vs the fish specifically since your postflop edge will be huge.

BTW, not to pick on Martin, but is he an example of what a LAG should beware of? From his graphs over the past few months, he has plenty of good sessions with strong redline, then has a bad session in which he gets crushed. Would you say this is pretty much an expected side effect of not playing LAG quite right and overdoing the "A"? I imagine in particular it's very easy to level yourself into believing your opponents are adjusting and playing back lighter than they are, and also to respond to coolers and mistakes by upping the aggression even further.

this is an article on how to play LAG...not how to table select. if you want to play LAG close to optimally, you pick tight tables with nits and roll-overs...not with loose players.

in regards to the bold part...RIO and neutral edge. that is all =)

i would say martin is NOT a LAG. in the last screen shot i saw his stats were 20/13. i would say he has the "L" part of LAG right...but he forgot the whole "AG" thing. And LAG will ruin those with leaks in their postflop game...as i mentioned a few times in the article. Martin has leaks, martin will sink. (no offense Martin =( )

And yes, most LAG's fail because they overdo the "AG" part and forget to think about their opponent's ranges and c-ranges while making plays...and go for value so think it is -EV

Way to block out the time frame. It's probably this year with AA or something similar. Noob.

lawlz. no. just a single session...but one from a little while back...hence the blackout

I just ran through my DB at 25nl (kind of a median level for the micros). Filtering for players with over 20 hands (less than that, even I can run a 40 VPIP in certain situations), players with a VPIP over 50 are about 10% of my DB. So far, so good. However, they only represent 5% of the hands played against me and more importantly, only a couple have more than 100 hands. Since I usually sit at a table for about 60 hands, it suggests that I see them only once.

That means they really aren't searchable. The vast majority are shooting stars, showing up for a brief moment before losing all their money and leaving for good. If the rest of the table is playing 15% VPIP, even a 50 VPIP raises the table average to 19% VPIP. Once they leave, everyone nits up again. The problem with a waiting list on a high VPIP table is that it is likely you are replacing the shooting star and everyone is nitting up again.

I'm not saying they aren't important to the ecosystem. Everyone else in my DB at 25nl with 20 hands or more who doesn't play a VPIP of above 50 is actually profitable as a whole. These fish are feeding everyone else.

Therefore, I look at them as like getting AA. Glad to get them, but I can't base my whole game on having them and can't really do much besides start/join new tables to get more. Besides by 50nl, you really can't avoid regs anymore and you'll never have the fish to yourself. You have to come up with new ways to take money from them.

FWIW, Mike Caro (who I'd never ask advice on how to play a NL hand, but is excellent on all the other externals of poker) recommends the same strategy.

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I have been expereminting with LAG play based on this advice. Typically I play 16-20 tables of 25NL, and make around 15 an hour. No, I am not great, but I am a solid winner over a large sample. I typically run around 15/11. I have been experimenting with table selecting tight tables and playing lag. I have played it 4 times. 3 of those sessions were very good, with monetary winnings on par with 20 tables. 1 was a dump truck session where I lost 2 buy ins and never adjusted (OK, I did adjust, just not well) to light 3 bets. Obviously this is a small sample, but if you discounty the one loosing session, I was making the same money playing 6 tables LAG table selecting tight tabels as I was playing 16-20 tables looking for the loosest tables. Even including the dump truck session, I am making 2/3's of the money.

I am still not a comfortable LAG player, but it is interesting, and really makes you think. I am still in awe of how exploitable TAG's are (and damn do I feel weak tight now when I mass table). So, again, I say thank you for the change in perspective.

nice post

Thanks for the great COTW. I've been expanding my TAG style over the past two months, and this will help to make it even better. Your video was very helpful as well.

Excellent Post!

I watched your recent 25nl LAG video (run good is always fun) and I am pleasantly surprised that you write very well and express your arguments with such a logical progression. It must be the coach coming out.

You mention searching tables with a lower number table vpip as a profitable alternative. This goes against the conventional wisdom, but I know it has been helpful for me when shot-taking at 50nl.

I also think your advice to find spots that make us uncomfortable and then to use them against others is pure gold. I will try to start marking hands for review using this criteria.

I am most interested in your concept of "threshold". Are you referencing any statistical database when you say the "real" range differs by player. Is the "ingrained threshold of pot size per hand strength" a tipping point that can be found only by trial and error? You seem to have very specific details in mind when you advise using a 36bb pot instead of a 40bb one.

Anyway, thanks again. This is a thought provoking addition to the COTW series.

O jesus...did you just compare my thoughts to Caro!??!! ****!

It's what i do =)

thank you!

gracias

yea...run good is always nice...but read Mpethy's post in that thread imo for real info

as far as threshold is concerned...i have found it due to exploration of player type and how they react with certain hand types and, in general, what pot size means they only continue with 2pr+ as opposed to TPTK. These thresholds are constantly changing, and change per limit as well. The PAUL555 example was maybe a little too dramatic as far as the pot sizes was concerned...but I just wanted to show something =)

glad it made you think =)

So should the table selection for a LAG be pretty much the opposite from the criteria for a TAG? I've been finding that I am getting killed on weekends since my LAG tendencies don't play well with real loose tables.

What is a normal c-bet% for you when playing this style?

What are some of the sticky situations that might come up when playing LAG that you might not see in TAG play?

1.) yea...LAG will get you murdered on weekends unless you are super particular on table selection

2.) 65% give or take

3.) well you will catch more 2nd pairs and TPWK cuz you steal so much...you will also be 3b-ing a lil wider...so larger pots OOP will be odd. these spots get easier in time

While it's a good post, a lot of people take this too far and think playing lag makes them cooler than all the nits. The bottom line is you want to play what's optimal for the table. If you have a table full of drooling idiots who never fold obv lag play is not going to work while it's pretty optimal for a table full of nits. But no matter which way you put it the table of drooling idiots is going to be more profitable. So I just think it's insanely dumb to be seeking out tables with nits. It's just backwards logic saying you want to play a certain style and then seek out opponents to make that the best strategy instead of just looking for the most profitable tables and playing the optimal way at each table.

nice post
still thinking about the argument zach made, havent made up my mind myself.

Split, thanks for all the advice. I've been going over your stox videos again as well.

Another thing, do you have any tips for getting the most out of your session videos? (or anyone elses?) I watch them and I kind of find myself getting lost. How do you think is the best way for studying them? It's a little easier with your videos since I had the classroom videos to go along with them, but for some of the other ones, I am starting cold.

IMO, wouldn't you want a combination of TAG's and fish at the table. With playing LAG against the TAG's. And solid TAG's almost NIT style against the fish. What seems to always happen is you can pound on the fish, as he thinks your playing loose fit or fold style similar to his. This is done because you rarely get to showdown playing a LAG style. And you'll always take his stack when he's got TPWK or MP and you have him crushed.

no problem. I dont learn well from vids...so I couldnt really tell ya. sorry =(

agree and disagree. but you bring some very valid points to light.

this is not very correct imo. as a LAG you will often times fire a barrel and then get to SD....and thus you show up to SD light and that is why blue line tends to be weird looking. ideally you could always fire another barrel and get a fold...but thats not really the case in FR as often as we'd like

also, i play LAG so i do not HAVE TO hit hands. a TAG strategy is based around IO. today's games offer less IO imo. Yes it is super profitable when you hit a big hand against a fish, or when you hit a good-side cooler against a TAG...but these are few and far between and there are lots of profitable opportunities in the middle

This is very well written! Wish I had this when I first started out playing LAG. (I failed miserably because I opened more hands, but played the same game postflop as I did with a TAG-style. Doesn't work, as you avg. hand strength is gonna be so much weaker. You need to become more aggresive.)

Does LAG have to be redline-based? I seem to be able to manage a blueline LAG strat

If it works, does it matter how it's classified?

Thanks for the great post. A question I was wondering: What is your normal pfr amount? Do you change your normal raise amount when switching from TAG to LAG? Seems like it would be natural to switch from the usual 4bb+1 raise most people opt for to something like 3bb+2 at such tight tables. However, at the same time this will deplete the threshold pot size you discussed which is counter productive for postflop play.