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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 09-23-2018, 01:22 PM   #1
TexInAtl
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AKs from the SB

Here's another hand from my session yesterday. I would like to get some comments on the play on each street. This is literally villain's first hand at the table, so I have absolutely 0 stats on villain.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 106.24 BB (VPIP: 62.50, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
BTN: 68 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
Hero (SB): 120.4 BB
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
UTG: 41.56 BB (VPIP: 14.51, PFR: 4.69, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 453)
UTG+1: 253.8 BB (VPIP: 22.32, PFR: 17.38, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 473)
MP: 38.24 BB (VPIP: 11.59, PFR: 9.93, 3Bet Preflop: 5.36, Hands: 308)
MP+1: 85.28 BB (VPIP: 6.94, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 73)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A K

fold, UTG+1 raises to 2.48 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.08 BB, BB raises to 9 BB, UTG+1 calls 6.52 BB, Hero calls 6.52 BB

Flop: (27 BB, 3 players) 2 5 2
Hero checks, BB bets 12.84 BB, UTG+1 calls 12.84 BB, Hero calls 12.84 BB

Turn: (65.52 BB, 3 players) 3
Hero checks, BB bets 78.16 BB and is all-in, fold, Hero ?

Spoiler:
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:57 AM   #2
ozeeum
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Re: AKs from the SB

Couple of notes:

While your hand is suited I still prefer to 3bet AK out of position because it isn't a made hand and you'll have pre flop aggression to take down a lot of pots with a Cbet on the flop. AK shouldn't really be afraid of a 4bet very often because it holds so much equity against other hands.

The flop float isn't too out of line but you should have a fold in there some percent of the time. Don't mind it though in a 3bet pot.

Calling an all-in on the turn is not a good play. your opponent has a lot of made hands in his range and you are so rarely ahead. Unless your opponent goes off the rails with AQ you're drawing to 6 outs with one card to come against ANY pair your opponent has.

You got lucky this time but ~85% of the time you're losing your stack.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:15 AM   #3
TexInAtl
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Re: AKs from the SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozeeum View Post
Couple of notes:

While your hand is suited I still prefer to 3bet AK out of position because it isn't a made hand and you'll have pre flop aggression to take down a lot of pots with a Cbet on the flop. AK shouldn't really be afraid of a 4bet very often because it holds so much equity against other hands.

The flop float isn't too out of line but you should have a fold in there some percent of the time. Don't mind it though in a 3bet pot.

Calling an all-in on the turn is not a good play. your opponent has a lot of made hands in his range and you are so rarely ahead. Unless your opponent goes off the rails with AQ you're drawing to 6 outs with one card to come against ANY pair your opponent has.

You got lucky this time but ~85% of the time you're losing your stack.
Did you miss the fact that I have the nut flush draw on the turn, plus the 4 for the wheel? I counted closer to 18 outs. Maybe some of the outs should be discounted for the times that I'm up against AA or KK, but still there were a boat load of outs.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:28 AM   #4
recondite7
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Re: AKs from the SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexInAtl View Post
Did you miss the fact that I have the nut flush draw on the turn, plus the 4 for the wheel? I counted closer to 18 outs. Maybe some of the outs should be discounted for the times that I'm up against AA or KK, but still there were a boat load of outs.
9 outs to the flush, but I would discount this to 8 since one makes any pp a full house.

6 outs to top pair, but these are far from clean as KK and AA make up a decent part of his range even with you holding AK. This should be discounted as well to maybe 3 or 4.

You have 3 wheel outs since one is already part of the flush draw range. Discount this maybe very slightly since you will chop it once in awhile.

15 outs is probably about right here. Calling isn't a huge mistake from an ev perspective, but I think it is still a clear mistake.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:46 PM   #5
TexInAtl
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Re: AKs from the SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite7 View Post
9 outs to the flush, but I would discount this to 8 since one makes any pp a full house.

6 outs to top pair, but these are far from clean as KK and AA make up a decent part of his range even with you holding AK. This should be discounted as well to maybe 3 or 4.

You have 3 wheel outs since one is already part of the flush draw range. Discount this maybe very slightly since you will chop it once in awhile.

15 outs is probably about right here. Calling isn't a huge mistake from an ev perspective, but I think it is still a clear mistake.
Now we're getting into the kind of discussion that I wanted to generate with this hand. I agree with the 15 discounted outs, and I'm not saying the call was right or wrong.
What I'm curious about is the fact that we have 0 stats on the villain, so how much can we narrow villain's range? The only thing that I know about the villain is that they waited 2 or 3 hands for the big blind to come around before playing their 1st hand at the table. Wouldn't whether or not the call was +ev depend on how narrow the villain's range is, and how do you narrow that range when you have no stats?
Also, the only suggested change to the line of play was to 3-bet from the SB, but wouldn't that have just resulted in a 4-bet and either jam or fold pre-flop? That seems like an overly aggressive (jam) or overly passive (fold) way to play the hand. Any other suggestions on the line taken with this hand?
Finally, I would like to know, as played, how many could actually find a fold on the turn?
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:17 PM   #6
amazin lazer
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Re: AKs from the SB

we must fold on turn. 3-bet this 100% all day from small blind, it plays so much easier post, and you are at the absolute top of your range. Not reraising this is a big mistake, calling on turn is also a mistake.
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:53 AM   #7
crow27
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Re: AKs from the SB

Quote:
so how much can we narrow villain's range
3 betting preflop is one sure way. 5 betting or calling a 4 bet narrows a V's range enough for me.

Also, I agree with amazin. Calling the turn is bad. Pot odds are not in H's favor.
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:10 AM   #8
ozeeum
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Re: AKs from the SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozeeum View Post
Couple of notes:

While your hand is suited I still prefer to 3bet AK out of position because it isn't a made hand and you'll have pre flop aggression to take down a lot of pots with a Cbet on the flop. AK shouldn't really be afraid of a 4bet very often because it holds so much equity against other hands.

The flop float isn't too out of line but you should have a fold in there some percent of the time. Don't mind it though in a 3bet pot.

Calling an all-in on the turn is not a good play. your opponent has a lot of made hands in his range and you are so rarely ahead. Unless your opponent goes off the rails with AQ you're drawing to 6 outs with one card to come against ANY pair your opponent has.

You got lucky this time but ~85% of the time you're losing your stack.
My apologies I misread the hand breakdown and thought the turn was a third 2, which discounted your straight and flush draw outs to any pair villain could have.
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