SB is 17/14/3. CO is much nittier, like 12/9 or something of that nature.


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $73.60
UTG: $52.55
Hero (MP): $48.50
CO: $43.90
BTN: $17.05
SB: $49.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with Q T
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($8.00) 8 8 8 (4 players)
SB bets $4, BB folds, Hero calls $4, CO folds

Turn: ($16.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14,

i dont really understand the point of this post...

question?

the float is pretty bad multi way. with co left to act.

So if this is a bad float multiway, I would like to know why. What about having the CO left to act makes this bad?

This is bad because if no Q or 10 hit I dont see you winning the pot and you lose your money...also if CO raises, you are forced to fold because he most like has you beat and you once again lose your money...if you want to float someone, i find it is most profitable when you are in position and it is HU

What part of his range is CO raising?

any 8 or pocket pair could raise you...i've even seen idiots raise this with only ace high.

EDIT: and by any 8 i mean THE 8...im dumb.

it doesn't matter. the fact is that you have one of the worse hands to have in this situation, you are behind any ace, any king, any pocket pair and there are 2 players still left in the pot.

meh, i wouldnt worry about CO too much, id think that he is flatting with most of his range that is going to continue. I think the real reason floating is bad because, the only hands that SB is going to bet here are pps that are now full houses. And no one folds boats ever. Your basically going to have to overshove to get someone off any pair here and 3 of a kind boards have very little fold equity for you in my opinion. Its just too likely that he has a made hand that he will go to the felt with to make plays here profitably.

If you are trying to work in some floats to your game choose spots where you can rep more (hes not going to believe you have TT+ after just calling his donk bet). Donk bets are also usually bad places to float in general. I think its more profitable to raise them up against bluffy/bad players or just fold against the tighter more passive ones.

I don't like it. The only hand he could have imo is a PP in which case you're pretty dominated.

Why would I be raising the flop with the strongest part of my range JJ-AA? I would be flat calling hoping CO comes along. This a fairly obvious slow-playing spot.


I posted this hand because I don't think Zeebo applies here, and I think there is FE because the flop brings us right back to PF and SB is *very* unlikely to stack off with most of his range here. If you are SB, are you calling a river shove with 66-77? 99? TT is a less likely part of his range because I have one of the tens. JJ is the wild card, probably the only hand he is going to stack off with, but he might have 3bet that pf.

Of course my plan for the hand changes if CO comes along. But I am getting 3:1, and if I make it to the turn HU with SB, I think he has to fold a good deal of his range by the river.

the reason its a good slowplaying spot is because no one ever folds here, and is thus a bad floating/bluffing spot. Sure you can run a huge bluff here, but SB looks like hes pretty tight, you may be a little optimistic regarding what hes leading with on this flop and what hes capable of folding. I just dont see the point in putting your whole stack in here to try and make a villain fold a full house at 50nl when you've only invested $2 preflop.

I don't have a hand here. I have a range. And my range after I flat the flop is still wide open, and stronger than SBs. SBs stats and his pf flat call narrow his range considerably. He basically has 22-77, 99-TT. I am leaving out the 8 for now because it is pretty unlikely.

When he donks the flop small, he is either probing with 55-77,99 or trying to get raised with an 8 or jj-AA. Since he likely would have 3bet jj-AA here, and because I still have quite a bit of equity with my overs, I doubt this is a -EV flop call.

If you are SB, are you stacking off here with 66-77? What about 99? That is close to the top of his range.

so you've invested 2$ into this pot, and SB bets into 3 other players on this board. And your plan is to make someone fold a fullhouse? Trying to make people fold is vastly -ev in low stakes.

op it seems like you are posting here to simply justify that your play is right. Not because you are looking for honest answers.

that would depend a lot on how you play. If your 15/11 or something probably not but if your aggressive and dont fold a lot in general, im either leading the turn or c/c with that range. C/F the turn would be a little wierd from him, he cant just put you on JJ+ or something at this point. And 14 into 16 is a little big of a bet to be making with the top of your range if you were slowplaying. Something like a little less than 2/3 pot is a little more consistent with a monster here since its still leaves a little less than a psb behind to set up a river shove. It just looks like it doesnt want to be called.


If he does c/c you hes going to be facing a 28.5 river shove from you into a 44 pot. He can still fold to that, but I think if your turn bet is called hes calling any river bet and just choosing to call down to maximize against bluffs. If hes decent he knows that your calling range beats him but not neccesarily your betting range so a c/c line makes perfect sense from a decent SB. I guess the turn bet has a some chance of getting a fold, but if he sticks around, firing that river barrel is probably burning money.

I don't like your turn bet size.

If you put villain on a probe bet with some small/middle PP, it's way too much. Which hands are you betting that much ? It would look suspicious and it smells "bluff" a lot to me.

If you think villain will fold his PP, I like the idea, otherwise it's a bad move.

I don't really like it, it's so obvious on a trip board, plus you not folding out any pocket pairs. I think it's a big spew.

I think it depends on what villians view on how you are playing is? If you're a maniac trying to take away flops from people - floating etc then this is obv bad. Because he knows this and is just going to combat it by going into check call mode.

But if you think villian can fold here (by his stats i suggest yes), and you've got the right image then yes i think its ok.

If you put villians range on PP's up to 99. Any A, K, Q, J and T is good for our percieved range. That is 18 outs. Then we can bet and its going to be hard for villian to call. We also have 6 outs to make the best hands probably and we can check behind the turn, to further gain value on the river, where he is more likely to call with his range, but its closing the betting action.

I also think that if we had the top end of our percieved range, we would be just flatting the donk bet to try and get the CO in, and CO will probably be aware of this, and will be folding a huge proportion of his range. If he flats, its obvious he's got a hand.....and we lose $4.

Yes. My plan is to make someone fold a full house. There are some solid players at low stakes, and your blanket statement that making people fold is -EV is just that....way too broad. I suspect a villain competent enough to know how to play a 17/13/3 style also knows that a pair of sevens on this board is not worth stacking off for. There is a lot of dead money in the pot, and if CO folds after he sees my flat call, I have position, and at least 27 or 28% equity, and I am getting 3:1 on a flop call. SBs range is pretty face up here.


I wasn't posting this hand just to justify that my play was right. Very, very rarely does uNL meet a bluff that it likes, and posting a bluff to argue that you are right is pretty pointless imo.

Just reverse the situation....If I posted this hand from SBs perspective, how many people in this forum would be advocating calling off a stack 4-way on this board with 99?