Hero: About 30 minutes into my session. I doubled up with AsAx against QsQx when I 3-bet got called and the flop came 3 spades, J high. But I don't think I've made any great moves.

Villain: The action on the table has been dominated by this guy to my immediate left. So much so I wasn't really observing anyone else. This is the first good LAG I've come across in 10NL in a long time, but he definitely makes mistakes, too. For example, preflop he 4-bet (30bb) a decent EP re-raiser then called his all-in (100bb) 5-bet with 55.

888 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - 888 Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

CO ($12.77)
Button ($21.06)
SB ($10.22)
BB ($10)
UTG ($10.80)
UTG+1 ($3.90)
MP1 ($19.22)
Hero (MP2) ($24.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 10, 8
3 folds, Hero raises $0.30, CO calls $0.30, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) 8, 8, A (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.52, 1 fold, Hero raises $1.75, CO calls $1.23

Turn: ($4.55) K (2 players)
Hero bets $2.75, CO calls $2.75

River: ($10.05) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, 1 fold

Total pot: $10.05

From my point of view, on the turn villain has a wide range even after calling my raise. I put him on Q9o+, A2o+, 55-77. But I'm not used to playing against LAGs hence this post. Maybe a different range is more reasonable?

I thought the K on the turn was great for me. So maybe a check-raise on the river would have been better?

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=solarglow;53171976]Hero: About 30 minutes into my session. I doubled up with AsAx against QsQx when I 3-bet got called and the flop came 3 spades, J high. {/QUOTE]

Focus on what's relevant, you winning some pots before this hand, doesn't really influence much in this hand.

Why did you choose to C/R the flop? If you don't take bluff lines like this on the flop, hard to see how you can put villain on a hand as weak as 55 on Q9, having bet and called a C/R on A88.

The K on the turn is great for you in what sense... are you wanting to represent a bluff...

Thanks for your reply.

I C/R the flop because I figured he'd bet - especially with an A on the board - and I wanted at least one street of value. He was good enough to give way to aggression if he didn't feel he was ahead and didn't have fold equity. He was in so many hands I couldn't be sure he actually had a decent hand for this flop.

Now that you make me think it through, he played his value hands aggressively. So the fact that he called a c/r and a turn bet means he probably had a much tighter range than I first described.

I hate the flop action, why wouldn't you cbet when your out of position? there are absolutely no draws, so if your c/r the flop here what are you c/r raise bluffing with here to balance?

When you check trips on this flop what does that do to your cbet range? The king is a good card and likely would have given you 3 streets of value vs the two you got.

I would cbet flop .75, bet 2.25 on turn, river I would mix it up with 3/4 and over bet pot to look like trying to fold out chops.

If your checking to induce bluffs, which is likely better as strong aces would 3 bet pre. Check Call flop, Check call turn, check raise river line would be better if you think he would bluff. C/r turn K is ok too looks bluffy folding out chops


Check raising flop cause I figured he would bet is terrible reason. If he's bluffing do you expect him to continue? If you think he would bet once there is literally 2 cards in the deck your afraid on the turn if he has an Ace.

Really good stuff, thanks.

My thinking was that this V would assume I was bluffing on a board like that and call. In that case, your recommended line (c/c, c/c, c/r) is better. By check-raising, my perceived range becomes pretty narrow.

Honestly, my check-raising bluff range on any board is pretty much zero. It's something I've only ever done for value. It's not a play I use often, but I'd like to incorporate it into my playbook more effectively.

So we check-raise on boards that could include draws to balance. But never on a board like this? From my point of view, paired flop boards (especially with a single A) are good candidates for balancing with bluffs. We could cbet bluff, but why never check-raise?

I just sat here thinking about it, and I'll try and answer my own question. We don't check-raise here because the range of hands that would call is too strong to make it profitable in the long-run, whereas a cbet gets looked up by a much wider (and therefore weaker) range of hands.

If you decide to c/r flop dont use middeling trips
But rather never raise here

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about how this hand was played. The goal of playing a LAG is to get value any way you can, primarily by inducing bluffs and mistakes. A c/r on the flop does exactly that. It gets at least one street of value, looks a little bluffy because it's an atypical line to take, which may also induce opp. to play back at you. Only thing I would change is the bet on the river as it takes away the LAG's ability to bluff. You already got 2 streets of value and villain probably isn't calling a weak Ax or a poker pair when you get the river, especially after the turn king.

Also, for everyone else, If we're cbetting this kind of flop 100% here with Ax and trips, it's far too exploitable, is it not? I think you have to work less on balancing your bluff range here (since there are few if any available) and more on varying up the ways in which you get max value from this sort of hand. Nothing wrong with a c/r on the flop with top pair or trips here in my opinion. Obviously not every time though.

I think the term you are looking for is "fish". QQ is a snap fold in that spot.

I'm kind of surprised he folded river, I think you were correct to put him on a wide range ott. I think this player is a fish though, if he is calling 55 pre to ep all in then he is never folding an ace otr to a 60% pot bet after calling 2 streets. I normally check call flop, check raise turn oop vs aggro fish since I want to make money from the air part of their range but also need to get the money in at some point if they have an ace.

Its fine to try to extract value against a so called LAG but be comfartable in playing weird/awkward spots

Against someone of this description... (I’m not buying the good LAG) V is calling or raising every cbet, so cbet. I also think it’s important to remember that this player could be moving down stakes or could have had too many beers. Who knows. This player type gets his kicks out of “out playing people”. V isn’t calling a bet on the river as played but V is way more likely to bet as generally speaking 10nl regs (you) fold way too much.

(Edit - I think bet flop, cc turn c/r river makes more money overall. Let him float you)

Upto you whether you raise his river steal v missed cbet

I think it's important to keep in mind this is 10NL. It's easy to judge based on the one hand I mentioned in the OP where he made an obvious mistake, but I mentioned it because it stuck out. In 10NL the winning players are mostly nits and the fish are either weak-tight or weak-loose. There just aren't many good LAGS. This guy was good, at least in terms of exploiting players at 10NL. When I left the table, he was at $30. I still had 888poker open as I finished the OP and in that time, probably 30 minutes, he was at $75.

I was trying to get value from him. Against one of the (other) fish I would have taken a different line. On the other hand, I can't deny that I need to improve my use of the check-raise. He obviously had hand-reading skills. I do want to add that I've added a check-raising bluff range to my repertoire and so far so good. The fish aren't paying attention, but I know the tight players are.

Just to give a few examples. The player in question is in bold.

V here was a weak-loose player. This hand may seem dull, but the pattern of stealing the pot on the river or picking good spots to float was repeated several times. If he had had a flush draw on the flop, I believe he would have raised.

888 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - 888 Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

MP1 ($8.75)
MP2 ($10.56)
CO ($10)
Button ($10)
SB ($10)
BB ($20.36)
Hero (UTG) ($17.44)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, Q
1 fold, MP1 raises $0.40, 3 folds, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.90) 6, 10, 3 (2 players)
SB bets $0.67, MP1 calls $0.67

Turn: ($2.24) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $1.68, MP1 calls $1.68

River: ($5.60) K (2 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets $2.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $5.60

Sometimes he has the goods and he uses this to reinforce his table image and get future folds.

888 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - 888 Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

BB ($8.12)
UTG ($20.76)
UTG+1 ($10.17)
MP1 ($10.15)
MP2 ($10.89)
CO ($3.65)
Button ($19.22)
Hero (SB) ($28.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, Q
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 raises $0.40, MP2 calls $0.40, 3 folds, BB calls $0.30, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.65) 5, Q, 7 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.82, 1 fold, BB calls $0.82, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.29) J (2 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets $2.46, BB raises $6.90 (All-In), MP1 calls $4.44

River: ($17.09) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $17.09

BB had 7, 5 (two pair, sevens and fives).
MP1 had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: BB won $16.24


But he also knew when to give up. V here was a weak-loose player.

888 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - 888 Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Button ($15.12)
SB ($18.85)
BB ($10.32)
UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($10.80)
MP1 ($3.90)
MP2 ($19.22)
Hero (CO) ($24.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4, 9
5 folds, Button raises $0.40, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.90) 4, J, 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Button bets $0.55, SB calls $0.55

Turn: ($2) J (2 players)
SB checks, Button bets $1.40, SB calls $1.40

River: ($4.80) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $3.60, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.80

You can't really judge a good LAG from one session OP. Every so often you see very aggressive players steam-roller a table. They'll seem to know exactly when to apply pressure, a check-raise here, a pot sized river bet there. People keep folding to them but when someone finally looks them up...they've got the nuts. It's enchanting. Thing is though you could just be witnessing a mini-heater. On a different day you might see that same player try and bluff a calling station and write him off as just another aggro-donk.
If you see the same guy over multiple sessions playing that same way profitably then yes, maybe he is a good LAG, but to be honest if he was then it'd be a lot more profitable for him to be playing higher up.


Edit: I wrote the above before seeing your last post:

He doesn't really look like a LAG to me based on those hands. Hands 1 & 3 he plays fairly passively and hand 2 he has KK.

If you look at a good LAGs graph the red line should be upwards. They rarely go to show down, and generally isolate weaker players when in position.

So he stacked an over pair with 57s having flopped two pair and made someone who likely folds too much fold on a ‘scary’ K river (when he likely had the K of Diamonds). Hand 3 looks like he rivers a boat and bets big having realised his check call line isn’t likely to win a big enough pot for his hand strength.

Good points, about not judging over one (relatively short) session and he's not a LAG just because he exploits people who fold too much. Because I agree, that tendency is very exploitable at 10NL, myself included probably. So he might just be agro-donk (the other type I neglected to mention on 10NL) on a heater. I play fairly often on 888poker but haven't run into him since.

I used to play 10NL on 888 all the time. Looking at some of those hands, he has less than 100bb starting stack which makes me think he either hasn’t worked out how to auto top up his stack or he is just a random fish on a heater. I’m going for random fish on a heater ; ()