x/shove range in 4bet pot - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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x/shove range in 4bet pot

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09-04-2017 , 05:48 AM

TK1991

grinder

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 453

HI, have you in the situations x/shove range? no? yes? why? what will be your x/shove range? thanks

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $26.48 (264.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $18.85 (188.5 bb)
UTG: $10 (100 bb)
MP: $10.92 (109.2 bb)
CO: $7.03 (70.3 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9

3 folds, BTN raises to $0.20, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.80, BTN raises to $2.10, Hero calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.25) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.34, Hero ?

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09-04-2017 , 06:04 AM

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,092

I'd just call.

Also, you can fold this preflop imo.

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09-04-2017 , 06:13 AM

ALongmuir

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,072

Fold pre to 4B. 98s plays poorly OOP, vs a 4B range (has no overs to JJ-AA, behind equity wise to all bluffs) with a range disadvantage with such a small SPR.

Don't think we really want a x/s range otf, KQ is just too far behind calling range, argument for x/s JJ, but I don't see much need for it given the small SPR + needs little protection. Another reason why not to defend pre is we are dominated by A5dd-A2dd too, so we can GII a lot dead.

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09-04-2017 , 06:15 AM

MouseyB

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 334

Out of interest, is this a standard three bet?

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09-04-2017 , 06:19 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

fold pre..

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09-04-2017 , 06:29 AM

TK1991

grinder

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 453

what is you 3bet range in the situation? how many % do you 3bet? I have thought this call pre is standard play.

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09-04-2017 , 06:31 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK1991

what is you 3bet range in the situation? how many % do you 3bet? I have thought this call pre is standard play.

Don't think u shouldn't have 4bet calling range OOP 100BB deep in micros (maybe even in general).

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09-04-2017 , 06:49 AM

ALongmuir

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,072

89s is a standard 3B for me in most positions (some exceptions for SB/BB vs UTG), my 3B BB vs BTN is probably somewhere between 12%-16%, can't remember exact number.

Think having a 3b/c range OOP is fine vs good regs/aggro 4Bettors (normally a spot you probably want to mix in flatting AA pre), but you have to be comfortable being put in some awkward spots postflop.

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09-04-2017 , 06:58 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALongmuir

....., but you have to be comfortable being put in some awkward spots postflop.

This. Don't think 10NL players are capable of playing right OOP in 4bet pots (neither do I, thats why I don't get myself in these positions

)

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09-04-2017 , 10:47 AM

#10

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by MouseyB

Out of interest, is this a standard three bet?

It's a fine 3-bet but flatting is fine as well. vs. a 3x open, it's a flat for sure. 67s vs. a minr is almost certainly a 3-bet.

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09-04-2017 , 10:49 AM

#11

JamesBJames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,791

I just call the open PF, but 3-betting's also reasonable if you want to go that route. Think we have to fold to his 4-bet as played.

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09-04-2017 , 11:21 AM

#12

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,102

3b is fine
Vs. the 4b you want to fold @ 100bb. I'd call 130bb+
AP on flop it's a call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

It's a fine 3-bet but flatting is fine as well. vs. a 3x open, it's a flat for sure. 67s vs. a minr is almost certainly a 3-bet.

This is not the correct logic. If we're against a larger opening size we want to 3b more and call less.

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09-04-2017 , 04:36 PM

#13

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Thanks for giving me something to chew on.

I've always approached it as not really that we should 3-bet more vs. a smaller sizing but 3-bet a different range* and defend more.

*3-bet hands we'd fold vs. a 3x.
3-bet more value hands that we'd flat vs. a 3x.
Flat the weaker hands that we would 3-bet vs. a 3x because of the better price since they're those fringe hands anyhow.

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09-04-2017 , 04:47 PM

#14

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,102

I wouldn't look at it like that, but kind of. With the larger opening preflop even though our 3b sizing changes (a little) it creates a situation where the EV gained from folding is greater (obviously) and the EV difference from taking it post flop is not enough to offset the differences between the two situations. It didn't make sense to me until I saw preflop solved ranges and noticed it myself, but it does make sense if you think about it.

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