Shouldn't be a problem ifx if jugjug stays in the game you guys still win. Not quite as glorious as it should be, but you get the W all the same.
Yeah we still ended up winning, but the game went on longer than it should have. I pretty much cleaned him out with my VRs and he had like 2 pylons powering like 3 gateways and 2 robos, which I was going for until I got dropped. After watching the replay I saw he was down to 30 supply, which I'm not really sure why it took like another 5 minutes for the game to end.
Nonetheless, we still won. At one point, early in the game I was at like 6 supply while everyone else was around 30-40. I kept getting nydrus dropped.
Surprising how bad they were though. We both had like 110 supply while they had 60-70 even after tearing me a new one in the beginning of the game.
Enjoying 2v2 though. I never really cared much for the team games. I might have to try a random teammate and see how that ends up, although I have to say JugJug is a great teammate and probably 99.9% of the reason why we won a couple games.
Well, I think emp's are easy to use when the toss is playing very passively but incredibly difficult to use when the toss is playing aggressively.
Also lol at using cloak with ghosts, it costs 25 energy to cloak, which burns 1 energy per second, with EMP using 75 energy. So you basically need to save up 125-150 energy to make cloak + EMP viable.
Late game collossus + ht combo pretty much ensure an emp will never get off on ht's kept behind the death ball.
I was talking late game, when your ghosts spawn with emp already and 25 mana builds up fairly quickly. I've had it done to me a few time and lost everytime. When a terran is on 12+ rax you can mix in a few ghosts here and there and you will have ones with enough to cloak and emp.
Nobody said emps were easy to use, I just said they were under used. They do insane dmg and make quite a few toss units useless.
because if you're going mech you can't afford ghosts since they cost so much gas and you need that gas for tanks/thors/upgrades. if your opponent goes templar when you're going mech, your tanks and thors are going to giggle while they're getting stormed. protoss just can't afford to go templar vs mech because they need to be going mass immortal.
if you want to hand me 5 ghosts w/ my mech army then of course i'll take them but there's just no way you're going to be able to have a large enough army if you're trying to mix in ghosts.
I get what you are saying. There hits a point when terran can afford ghosts, once you have 6 gas going you can mix in ghosts. A couple of emps are worth a lot more than having a couple more thors. Especially if the toss is going mass immortals...two emps and mass immortals are gone in 3 seconds. They are so slow you cant dodge the emp or retreat and once the shield is gone its as good as dead.
I guess what im saying is that they are a great late game unit that isnt mixed into the terran army nearly enough. Off one or two base I can understand why since they are super gas heavy but even still, a 1 base ghost stim timing is so hard for a protoss to stop as well.
Ive played a ton as toss and recently switched over to terran and IMO terran is by far the better "macro" race, so much easier to play a 3+ base game as terran. Because protoss units only work efficiently together whenever you have 3 bases you have large vulnerabilities. Also been playing around with some 3 factory tank play and it certainly doesnt seem like there is a particularly good toss composition against that on tank favorable maps. Even if we assume there is nothing more efficient than the protoss deathball (I would disagree) medivacs, banshees, hellions all are very effective tools at circumventing that and allowing you to either expand more or fight in cost efficient ways.
The way I feel about toss is that if they get various tech up with even armies there are often timing windows that are pretty much unstoppable. That being said almost all protoss tech erodes in value over time as the game spreads out and the vikings/ghosts get up in critical mass. Theres a lot of ways to rofl lose as well and the threat of counter attacks can keep you in your base and force you behind in expos. Its an awesome matchup and feels very balanced to me but I def favor terran if not in a 3 base game definitely when it gets to 4+ bases.
Today played a 4v4 where villains were 4 Zerg. Instantly at the beginning of the game one of them quit (intentionally as part of a gimmick where they take the extra minerals, get the fastest pools possible then gang rush everyone before any wall can get up).
We were on vent and instantly recognized what was going on... we're 3 random and 1 terran. 2 of us random rolled zerg the other rolled toss. the terran and toss made a "safe wall" (sacrificing early BO and economy to just get **** up) and the other zerg and i both 7 pooled.
we kept them off the toss wall until he got a stalker up and the terran was obv fine with his marine. we then went and just sparred back and forth with the 3 Z's worth of zerglings, teasing their mineral line (we both got spines up in ours so we were ok) and then the toss and terran both came out and rolled them with their bigger armies.
was a fun game and that cheese is such bs... it almost seems like cheating to snap quit like that, but we handled it fine cause we recognized what it was right away.
I've had that happen once or twice, end up against 4 Zerg.
I usually go something like 9 depot, 10 rax 10 rax 10 rax, cut econ to get a wall up.
It always drives me insane when someone on my team doesn't do that. Its so obvious that we're getting rushed, get your damn wall up
Variance: Random 4v4
Variance: I think Random 4v4 is the most fun way to play SC2
so dumb that a terran can get to masters league going 5 rax off of 1 base. make marines marauders get stim and attack move lol. after he loses he asks me how he possibly could have beaten my muta/ling/baneling army. lol terrans.
haha had another lol terrans moment. i did the catz 4 drone harass on steppes and the guy pulls all his SCVs and i run away. he chases me for a little then tries to go back to mine so i harass his SCV building the barracks and instead of doing something sensible like sending 5 SCVs, the guy decides to try and counter all-in with his SCVs. then i guess he realized how dumb that was and just quit.
Because protoss units only work efficiently together whenever you have 3 bases you have large vulnerabilities.
Once you have temps with the amulet this all changes. Putting up 3+ cannons at each expo will allow you to buy time to get off storms + get an army over to defend. Also keeping 1 temp at each base also helps.
Also been playing around with some 3 factory tank play and it certainly doesnt seem like there is a particularly good toss composition against that on tank favorable maps.
Immortal chargelot, chargelot phoenix, immortal chargelot phoenix all come to mind. I'd love to test it out though, because i've never really had a problem when terran goes tanks, it makes me happy to be honest.
That being said almost all protoss tech erodes in value over time as the game spreads out and the vikings/ghosts get up in critical mass.
Hmm, dont know if I agree that protoss tech erodes. Protoss has huge late game power and with the amulet it allows you to have a chance in most battles. Terran balancing the viking count is a really hard skill to master. Nothing makes me happier than seeing a terran with 15 vikings and I have 3 coll. Their ground army is to small to deal with anything, especially when I also have temps, which any 3+ base protoss will have. Also, dont forget the mothership
Def agree that the matchup is a lot closer than some might say, I am sick of all the QQ crap I get on ladder. Nothing is more frustrating than a hyperaggro terran who can multiprong harrass well. Marauders in low numbers with a medivac are really hard to deal with.
Also I don't think Thor rushes work too much anymore not only because of the nerf but because of the way people play wall ins. If you don't wall in you stand the risk of getting scouted. And when you don't get scouted it's because you went out of your way to block with marines which is a huge tell. There's no denying that the Thor rush was only as strong as it was because of the ai.
Targeting scvs is massively inefficient with melee units. They just run around without doing anything. For zerg especially the patch makes a huge difference.