sounds more like a beat to me.

Your brag also turned into a beat.

On a 6 game losing streak. Some of my losses were games against Zerg on Shakuras where they contained me in my main/nat and then crushed me after taking a bunch of bases and starving me out. My biggest problem was not pressuring their expansions which had almost no forces to defend early on. I had some games against Terran where I got owned by siege tanks seated outside my base combined with marines and marauders, forcing my army into their range to defend (also on Shakuras). You can get in some terrible situations if you let tanks siege up at your base's choke. And the last two were failed economical 4 warp gate rushes in which I ran half my army into its death and retreated but was too crippled to hold off my opponent for long.

What is the best protoss response to MMM early on? Stalkers and zealots seem like the worst units you could ask for.

I like to 3 gate expo when I suspect early rax pressure. ff is really good vs early bio pressure.

I thought stalkers and zealots beat marine marauder before stim.

Stim comes early.

Early: FF, void rays, DTs
Early-Mid: FF + Immo
Mid: Collosi
Late: Templar

Rarely does pure zealot stalker work out and usually not for long.

Obviously a few sentries as well.

Is it possible for the protoss to win an engagement early on against Terran without outmacroing them? I've been playing with all sorts of protoss compositions against MMM, and none of them can beat MMM cost for cost. Zealots get kited to death, stalkers melt to marauders, immortals lack fire power in a smaller early game army. I normally quickly tech to colossi while massing gateway units off of 3 gates, is this the best option?

for Toss v MMM, even Colossus don't really scare me. If I skew toward marauders, I can take out ~3 colossus without much problem.
I play really heavy bio, and the only thing that scares the **** out of me is HT. My only counter are ghosts, and for those to counter I need to have split second, accurate micro.
as far as early game, FF is super important in cutting my bio force in half.

Zefa has a pretty sick PvT build. It focuses on getting a fast nexus and then pumping out +2wep/+2armr really fast. It's crushed all sorts of terran unit compositions that I've tried throwing at him. I'm pretty sure he uses almost all gateway units too.

Also, the key is getting chargelots. You cannot kite chargelots, they tank a ton of damage, and keep the MMM from getting a concave.

Finally, psionic storm is super sick and is much harder to counter as terran than collossus imo. The key with HT's is to keep them spread out towards the back of your death ball and to try to remain on the offensive. It is so incredibly difficult for terran to get defensive EMPs off (virtually impossible imo). It is much much easier to EMP your HTs if you just sit there passively and let him scan your army and then target the HT's.

For tank contains it is always best to just do a drop into his base. He is going to have all of his troops rallied to the contain so you can easily take out his econ.

Did some more unit testing and a stalker-heavy army with a few colossi does indeed get owned by marauder-heavy MMM. Switch to zealot-heavy and protoss wins easily. Charge is pretty important in this matchup, it seems.

Brag: Promoted to gold in 1v1 after finally beating a Terran. Got charge, storms, and colossi ftw.

You want to make sure you don't spread yourself too thin early in the game by going down a bunch of different tech routes. But yea, that combo is super effective mid-late game vs MMM.

There are a lot of different situations that require different army mixes imo. Its not a simple "get this and you'll be fine" type of thing. You need to know their army mix for sure. If you don't, your chances of losing are increased by a mile.

Against terran I have been sticking to the 1 gate, robo, add another gate as soon after the robo as you can without cutting probes. That way you can get a quick obs and tailor your army to what they are making.

If they have multiple raxes with tech labs and are going marauder heavy, you should be making immortals, zeals, and sentries. I might have 1 stalker in my entire army and that is from the very early game when I go zeal stalker etc. If they attack you and you use your FFs well you will crush the push. When marauders can't micro vs zeals and you have an immortal or two to back you up they get crushed.

If they are going marine heavy they are usually teching or expanding in which case you should expand as well. Your army should be more stalker sentry based and then you can tech to colossus or temps.

1 last thing im finding, the tech switch from col - temps is the hardest tech switch for a terran to deal with. 95% of them at my level still cant deal with it well as you need to have constant info on what my army looks like and what im producing. Once it gets 3+ bases and you can afford col and temps then you can be super super aggressive and watch them rage.

Hopefully this makes sense, if it doesnt forgive me, I havent had my coffee.

sigh got demoted again. i can't win a ****ing game once i'm in masters. when i'm in diamond i can't lose.

wtf? How do you go from Top 10 ranked Masters to demoted back to Diamond? (I don't mean "you", but from the Blizzard perspective)

Did you go on an extreme losing streak?

Maybe you're in a division based on the lower end of the entire Masters population?

Doesn't make sense.

However, and no offense to you, but I really like the idea of promotion/demotion like that. To me, it's exactly what the rankings/leaderboards need.

But at least you get to sample different divisions!

Ranks means very little, rating is crap too due to bonus pool (2000 rated player with 700bonus pool >>>> 2500 rated player &0pool)

been on some small tourney today (8players), won vs 2 better terrenas in TvT. Both 2-1 and vs both i won one base trade (MKP sighting!!!). Lost one game even though i was like 42k vs 29k in resources in the end tho (forgot to mine gas for my bc switch lol).
In the finals i lost vs player that i never lost a BO3 yet

btw for those talking tonight here is the big tvp thread

tbh against a P of slightly less than your skill or better, you more or less need to 1 base all-in or you will lose almost every time (before you go nit crazy on me, read the bold again)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...urrentpage=All

this post sums it up quite well:

I think this is the main problem in TvP: Terran are too strong early game, but very weak late game (at least in this matchup). Even if you try to play a standard game and "scout better", you will still mostly need to all-in if the protoss fast expands, because you can't match him in the long run. And on the other side, protoss almost always need to expand if he doesn't want to fall behind economically, because he can't match the terran on 1 base and without any tech.

So yeah, you most likely need to 1-base all-in to stop a protoss that fast expands, but I wouldn't recommend it since we need people to try things if we want to metagame to upgrade a bit.

so you're saying jinro is significantly better than MC?

drawing analogies to top level play is absurd for the obvious reasons. you cant evaluate how people play in d/masters on the NA ladder vs them. they are in a different league, with different builds due to different micro possibilities those of us mere mortals couldn't even imagine. their APM and micro being so absurdly good just changes the entire game, which is why you dont see all of us using (with a few exceptions that "only work once") GSL builds in all our games.

i mean if you dont believe me, just watch some T streams on TL for a while. it should be obv when they get matched up vs. a scrub and not.

ive been watching/playing TvP all night, out macroing the **** out of the opponent, engaging with a 40 food advantage with ghosts landing emps on their entire army and 5 vikings and

not even coming remotely close to winning the battle.

but if i 1 base all in? i win prob 60-65% of the time. i like late game play, not all ins :-(.

maybe you should try jinro's build and go mech. mech is going to be a lot less micro intensive than bio play.

im trying it, but it's an odd new style to learn vs toss. having to experiment with stuff like mixing ghosts in, dealing w/ carriers (something ive never had to deal with in 1s before), motherships, denying expansions, drops (dropping w/ mech is obv sort of hard).

in other news:

brag: losing at starcraft tonight inspired me to ragequit and fire off a bunch of job applications (i have no idea why it did this as it's not related at all) ive been procrastinating hitting the send button on
beat: losing at starcraft
variance: im sort of over-qualified (and over-arrogant, perhaps?) for those jobs, so i hope to do well here
variance 2: new PC soon so i can actually start microing?

ive been using magazines as mousepads... and i have to flip the page every day as the sweat from my hand wrinkles the pages. if i can get a new mouse that doesnt break all the time, a new pc that doesnt chug and a real mousepad... i feel like my game is going to instantly get a lot better lol.

fwiw i got a razer mouse. not sure exactly which one it is but it was like $30 and it does fine. and looks cool .

lol my mouse randomly spazzes at least 1-2x per game and i obv cant micro well on ****ing magazine pages, but i can a move!