Mine has been the same from hots to lotv

are cyclones still like good

I didn't see them much in the Shoutcraft tournament except in early game TvT. I feel like they should be good in theory but maybe people haven't really figured out how they fit into the meta yet. tbh I haven't seen a lot of new LotV units at all yet, liberator is probably most frequent but still only maybe ~40% of the Terrans I've played are using them. I've only played a couple ZvPs against disruptors (they seem super OP if controlled well, roach hydra off creep cannot dodge them, but everyone I've played against so far uses them poorly and loses them for free) and haven't had to deal with adept harass at all yet.

I kinda wish I could find a place for lurkers in the midgame but it takes soooooooooooooooo long to morph a hydra den into a lurker den that you can't fit the time in to build them against Terran pushes unless you commit to ravager-roach-hydra as your main composition.

Build times:

- hatchery: 71 seconds
- hatchery->lair: 57 seconds
- lair->hive: 71 seconds
- spire: 71 seconds
- spire->greater spire: 71 seconds
- zergling speed: 79 seconds
- hydra den: 29 seconds
- hydra speed/range: 71 seconds
- hydra den->lurker den: EIGHTY SIX SECONDS

The only thing I can find that takes longer to research/build for a Zerg, besides attack/armor upgrades, is adrenal glands, at 93 seconds. Hitting timings perfectly, it's 2:47 from when you start your lair before you can morph lurkers.

Yeah, I haven't found the liberator to be all that fun but I suck with them; same with the cyclone, I just throw them away stupidly.

Lurkers are so annoying, mostly because if your opponent has 3 or more, it can be hard to tell where the spikes are coming from amid the chaos. Then you misplace a scan or head your units in the wrong direction and get hit again. I'll get used to it eventually.

It seems to me like the only fun/useful new units are on the Protoss side.

Pylon overcharge is really starting to irritate me - it's just impossible to touch Protoss in the early game now with speedlings. It only costs 25 energy ffs, the mothership core can just toss them out like candy. It forces Zerg to polarize their build order, because either you go super all in from the start or you play economically and hope you don't get all-ined too fast - anything in between is just dumb, because Protoss can hold your pressure easily and you would have been better off building drones.

Seriously one of the stupidest changes this game has ever seen.

Yeah I have no idea why Pylon overcharge is even a thing

Agreed. I can't stand pylon overcharge.

I've only started playing sc2 again the past 2 months or so. Bought it at launch and played for like 3 weeks.

What league are you all on? I just got lotv and all I've ever played as is Zerg. Can't stand playing Terran harassment with drops or toss air. Drives me mad

Having not heard of it until now, I like the sound of this pylon overcharge thing.

I would just love an explanation for why it felt necessary. As if Protoss somehow needed another way to get DPS out to all areas of a map instantly.

Well to be fair Protoss has been pretty consistently underpowered over the life of the game.

Only towards the end of HOTS.

Zerg seems really tough to beat as a Protoss player. Their economy is really really good.

Are you developing a strong economy as well or going for two base all ins? I think Protoss can take a super easy third in PvZ now.

Seems like a good time to get plastered and play ladder games.

Either I'm really really bad, or massive all-ins are what everyone does now in LOTV

Well that's just how sc works. People all in until it's solved and then adjust.

Aight, gotta run some errands but I'm prob gonna buy this ish and play this afternoon. See if I still got it.

Let us know how it goes!

I played a TvZ on that map where there's two entrances into your natural, but you're supposed to block off the area that includes your third by knocking down the rock tower. Well I didn't know any of this, so I just walled off teh ramp to third and didn't realize there was another entrance. My opponent is apparently also terrible and ignorant about maps, so he tries to baneling bust my wall, leaving the completely open entrance totally unmolested. I hold and win a very ugly game.

Nyduses being both immortal and transfusable is vying with pylon overcharge for dumbest change. The only point is to allow stupid cheeses.

Hot take: LotV is much more fun to watch than HotS

Nyduses have always been transfusable, but yeah, with the OL drops change as well it doesn't seem necessary to make them invulnerable. I disagree that it's on the same level as pylon overcharge.

So far I agree with you about watching, but it's also an exciting and turbulent time for the meta so that may be as responsible as any changes to the game.

Wait nyduses are invulnerable while deploying? Uhhh..... Wat

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Bro do you even read up on LotV changes??

Yeah, you can't damage the nydus worm until it pops now. A popular strategy that has resulted is to immediately pop queens from a nydus so that it can be transfused to keep it alive.

You can at least imagine justifications for pylon overcharge. What possible reason could there be for allowing nyduses to sometimes kill you even if you immediately spot them AND pull units to target them down as soon as they pop?