Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!)

07-29-2015 , 04:50 PM
It's def more difficult for Terran to deal with storm than Zerg, I feel you on that.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 06:56 PM
Creep spread is the APM mechanic of Zerg moreso than Larva injects. I freely admit that mine needs some serious work most games.

I can inject 20+ hatcheries in under 2 seconds. Just need a mechanical keyboard and the proper hotkey setup. Not that you'll ever have that many, obviously.

I die to having the wrong units vs Protoss a lot more than I die to Psi Storm. Last night for instance, I failed to scout triple Stargate. My first push into the TurtleToss base revealed cannons with stalker/sentry and one visible immortal. I took 2 more bases (5 in total) and started going nuts with mutas, which is just my personal favorite. My first 20 mutas met at least that many Phoenix when I went in for harass, and I got curb stomped.

I killed off his third with my ground army, but he was competent at Phoenix micro and I wound up losing all the mutas, like 50 drones, and pretty much ALL my overlords which were stupidly chilling near my un-spored third. I died with a huge bank because I couldn't build enough overlords. I should've IMMEDIATELY switched to mass Hydra the second I saw the huge swarm of Phoenix, but I'm usually able to just outmicro them with my mutas at this level. Bounce out of fog of war and immediately move back toward the Phoenix ball. This was a LOT of Phoenix, though. APM didn't lose me the game. Just some good old fashioned poor decisionmaking.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 07:06 PM
well id think your apm is higher just cause all of your production is excessive to other races. no one else has 50 supply of units made in 1-2sec (pretty sure that isnt spam either) along with how often you move around the map. whenever i played zerg i def lost creep spread mid game when my apm was running at its max. but like goofy said i wasnt great at zerg and the decision making time on top of doing it time was a problem too.

anyone wanna play archon tonight?
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 08:03 PM
So all Terrans have now figured out that you auto-win if you just build 3 Liberators and about 15 Hellbats vs Zerg.

Unless I already have my spire down when you arrive, I just lose.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Inso0
So all Terrans have now figured out that you auto-win if you just build 3 Liberators and about 15 Hellbats vs Zerg.

Unless I already have my spire down when you arrive, I just lose.
Avoiding this kind of imbalanced bull**** is exactly why I can't bring myself to start playing LotV yet.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 08:51 PM
It's not necessarily imbalanced, but I'm a zergling kinda guy, and the Liberators make it impossible to deal with the Hellbats with just lings/queens.

The Liberators 2-shot queens, and smart placement by the Terran makes defense against the hellbats just a MASSIVE pain in the dick, or downright impossible.

I tried to zone them out in one game with solid spore placement, but that really just delayed him a few seconds while he set up camp and focused the spores down with his hellbats (still under cover of the liberators though so actually getting a surround was impossible).

For roach lovers, maybe this sucks a lot less. I am not a roach lover, though.

The three bridgehead losses are all to the 3 Liberator + Hellbat push. Maybe it's just on that map because of how easily the Liberators can hide on the highground areas, I guess.

The Ruins of Seras is the Phoenix silliness loss I described above.

Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 08:53 PM
idk goofy, as a terran with like 70apm on a good day, ive wished for more APM like basically every single game. Move this, drop those, build those units, seige the tanks, unseige the tanks, reposition that stuff, load up and boost, drop again, build more ****, drop, seige, unseige, burrow the mines, unborrow the mines, move the mines BURROW THE MINES SEIGE THE TANKS LOAD UP DROP build probe
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-29-2015 , 08:55 PM
Then I play on my protoss alt and I have no idea what I'm supposed to do all the time. There's nothing you really need to do, just warp stuff in.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-30-2015 , 02:38 AM

This happens a lot when Blizzard adjusts the leagues mid-season. I notice that all the plats I play against on my smurf are terrible at Starcraft, sign on my main account, play 3 games, get promoted.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-30-2015 , 09:37 AM
There was a large banwave yesterday.

Perhaps that causes a reshuffling of the player distribution within leagues.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 12:25 AM
Played some lotv tonight. I won all my placement matches and got placed in bronze, is this normal?

Also, bronze players are really really REALLYYY bad at starcraft.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 03:54 AM
In last night's crazy stacked (I haven't watched most of the games yet though) SSL group of Innovation vs Hero + Life vs sOs, spoiler for Life-sOs game 2:

Was that an idra gg timing by sOs or just giving Life the proper amount of respect?

To recap for non-viewers: on Vaani, Life goes 3 hatch before pool taking a gold as his natural, sOs goes nexus first into gateway, then stargate. He makes 1 oracle which kills like 2-3 drones. Life cuts drones at 53 and goes into MASSIVE ling production (and also starts 1-1 melee upgrades) to try to shut down the 3rd. sOs is caught totally off-guard, loses his army up to that point (which, given that it's early-game Protoss and a greedy third, was like 4-5 sentries, a stalker, some zealots, and subsequently warped-in zealots), some probes but not a ton, and eventually loses the third base. As the third dies, sOs insta-ggs out.

Here's the thing: he was ahead in workers (58-53), supply was only 78-75 in favor of Life, and while things did look grim, he could hold the two bases he was on endlessly with force fields on the ramp (it's Vaani, so that's super easy) while he tried to build up to some kind of 2 base all in. On the downside, Life has a free 4th to take with his map control and already has a gold base.

While definitely looking grim for sOs, is that really insta-quit territory?
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 05:17 AM
And group result spoiler:

lol, mech.

Life plays a perfect ZvT against Innovation's bio in game 1 of the loser's match, and just destroys him in every way. Innovation's play was subpar but Life's killer instinct was on full display and he annihilated one of the best Terrans in the world.

Then Innovation switches to mech for the next two maps and makes the best Zerg in the world look utterly helpless, reducing him to sad attempts at midgame viper timings and those pathetic suicidal "well, I know this won't work, but I don't have any better options" attacks that we've all come to expect from Zergs playing against turtle mech.

Great work Blizzard, you correctly identified that it was swarm hosts that were the problems with turtle games in ZvT and made sure that no Terran would ever sit behind a wall of tanks and planetaries again to turtle up into an a-move ball of victory. You ****ing clowns.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 11:40 AM
(mod note: editing cause SSL group C final match spoiler)

Just watched all three Life vs Innovation games. Utterly disgusting.

Honestly, what the hell could he have done differently at ANY point during that bull****?

75 missile turrets, np.

Last edited by goofyballer; 07-31-2015 at 11:59 AM.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 02:06 PM
I don't think Life played particularly amazing in the mech games, but I'm not sure what a Zerg playing amazingly against a wall of turrets and planetaries and siege tanks and vikings looks like, so maybe I just didn't realize it.

I have a theory that I think these games are starting to bear out: perfect Terran mech play cannot lose to perfect Zerg play. And when I say "perfect" I don't mean, like, superhuman micro that only bots can pull off, I just mean game theory-type perfect like we know from poker.

If the Terran is on top of scouting and knowing their opponent's tech, not letting themselves die to anything stupid like nydus or unseen mass muta/roach all-in/whatever, and striking the right balance between early greed (establishing that fast 3rd) and later defensiveness (lock down bases, use simcity + turrets + spread out tanks + sensor towers to prevent attacks), what is the Zerg response? What options does the Zerg have, even if done perfectly, to counter this?

A perfect Zerg all-in doesn't necessarily work because every potential all-in can be hard countered by a Terran if identified. A perfectly composed Zerg lategame army cannot kill a perfectly composed lategame mech army. So what the hell is the Zerg counter to mech?

There isn't one. So you wind up playing these games, and watching them, with the same helpless sense of dread that Life obviously had against Innovation in those games - where Terran is making an army that you cannot kill, and you cannot stop them from doing it.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
07-31-2015 , 02:31 PM
I 100% agree.

My ****ty R1 Plat league answer to that kind of thing is just to build more mutas, and magic-box my way to victory, provided the viking count isn't too high. Understandably, I lose a lot of the time anyway.

Fortunately, I'm not up against Innovation who builds 50 missile turrets all over the map and makes them immune to ground force clearing via tankspam.

I loathe playing against Mech. I'll hate it even more when I play enough games to rise to where my opponents don't just lose to being out-macro'd.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-01-2015 , 10:59 PM

I was really far ahead, but it's just disgusting what an A-moved Mech army can do to zerg forces.

I had a massive bank and he was totally broke, so he gave up.

Edit: Mind you, my army was fully upgraded, too.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 12:00 AM
What the heck happened from 650 to 840? Like, you take a good trade against mech (unpossible) but then keep losing army while he's making more?

What was the 940 remax?
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 08:32 AM
if you haven't looked at TL in the past couple of days, don't go back, ever, it's like they've hired facebook's web designers
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 08:35 AM
that wasnt as drastic as i was expecting but there must be like an unwritten rule amongst companies that you cannot update your site without making it look worse. i cant remember the last time one was better.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 10:40 AM
Where are you guys finding VODs for SSL Group C? The TL VOD thread only has the first two matches.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by goofyballer
What the heck happened from 650 to 840? Like, you take a good trade against mech (unpossible) but then keep losing army while he's making more?

What was the 940 remax?
650 to 840 was pure (+2attack)Muta/(2/2)Ling vs a Tank/Thor/Hellbat/Banshee/Viking mix. I had a small sprinking of Banelings in there, but they didn't do much. I think he had way too many banshees, which is why his Army value took such a dive and mine didn't. Magic Box the mutas over the 4ish Thors and it was just all over for him. This engagement was on creep, so the ling surround was swift and deadly. He had 0 widow mines, which helped.

I continued to pump Zerglings. The reason I'm losing army is because those follow-up lings ****ed up his natural and third pretty badly. I focused on SCV kills, and I got a LOT of them.

The remax was Brood Lord/Corruptor/Crackling/Viper. I forgot my Ultralisk Cavern, so I didn't make any.

That entire army was utterly CRUSHED, but since I had contained him for the entire game, he was running on empty. I had 9(?) bases around the map. 4 of which were totally mined out, and had my 70 drones spread around the rest.

I lost a lot of drones that game to Hellions because of how spread out I was and the lack of Spines.

I think I stated this earlier in the thread, but with how quickly the bases mine out in LOTV, I expand very aggressively, and favor large balls of mutalisks and roaming zerglings to keep my opponent hiding in his base while I build a massive bank and ultimately starve them out. Especially on that map in particular, it's not uncommon for me to have 10+ hatcheries by the time the game ends.

A better player would've ended the game long before that point because of how far ahead I was, but that's why I'm still in Plat. Though I assume the Diamond bump will be coming soon on the beta.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 11:56 AM
Yeah, second game of the day I got the bump.

Notice the minimap. I took a lot of damage to burrowed roaches before my mutas came out, but once they did, I contained him hard.

The little green pack of blips you see in the upper right are some zerglings just patrolling the rest of the map checking for expansions. I sniped his natural three times over the course of the game by threatening his third with the muta ball and then just running lings in to kill his natural hatch. In fact, you can see in the screenshot that his natural has a hole where the hatch is supposed to be.

Again, this game was over long before I actually ended it. But I expand ultra-aggressively to counteract the early mineout in LOTV, and that allows me to do silly **** like build 50 banelings to end the game. Meanwhile, he was just desperately trying to build enough Roach/Hydra off 2 base economy to not die.

In Diamond league, the enemy probably has Vipers and/or Infestors out to **** my mutas. This is where things get hard, I decide that I'm too old and slow to make the push to masters, and I ragequit SC2 for another 2 years.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 12:55 PM
Yeah, my first 3 Diamond games were all ZvZ losses to baneling all-ins.

My micro skills leave much to be desired.

Edit: Make that 4.

Edit2: 5


Edit 3: SC2 Ragequit imminent

Last edited by Inso0; 08-02-2015 at 01:25 PM.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote
08-02-2015 , 01:59 PM
After 6 losses in a row, it threw me a Gold bone and I crushed his soul.

Inb4 demotion back to Plat.

The common thread so far in all these losses (just lost to a Terran) is ULTRA early all-in aggression, or kitchy ****.

Some of the ZvZ losses were baneling drops, and the terran losses involved sieged tank drop-play.

Edit: That loss was to 3 proxy mass reaper. What is happening right now? I held the reapers, but he did too much damage and I died to the 85 followup marines with Medivac support.

Last edited by Inso0; 08-02-2015 at 02:19 PM.
Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) Quote