I feel like once Protoss gets on 3 bases uncontested, or 4+ in any situation, you're compositionally behind as a default because Zerg units are terrible and Protoss units are really good. As it stood, I hope he had like no bank whatsoever and wasn't mining much because he had 1-2 bases at the south end of the map that I hadn't touched at any point in the game and any amount of income would have allowed him to start cranking tempests and hurt my air army a lot. But he just left the game instead.
Originally Posted by gamboneee
and if a terran 2rax and loses to ling run by, you should prob never lose to him ever.
Well, Daedalus is a good map for it - the challenge is getting lings by their bunkers. It's not like Terrans ever build raxes at home after a 2rax, so what units are they going to have there?
if you can actually make 18 bl's entirely away from their army, you cant be playing someone good. thats probably a solid third of your army supply.
well lings can never break in vs scvs... so thats a start..
failed 2 rax --> triple cc; you can still hold a wall vs lings. if you dont go quick 3rd, you have to have a rax or a fact in your main. if he had neither, he was either not making scvs (bad), floating heaps mins (bad), or still thinking 2rax would win (bad)
I looked at the replay of the ZvP out of curiosity, and yeah, I was in much better shape for most of the game than I gave myself credit for after holding off his gateway attack. Still, I'm not sure what I would do differently once I had all the swarm hosts since they're a very difficult unit to use offensively - off creep, locusts are slow and your army is extremely vulnerable. Plus there's the existential threat of him having 3 base income (his gold dried up fairly early since he expanded there first) and being able to make Protoss ****. Like eventually he got up to 5 colossi with lots of stalkers and a few archons, and that's a pretty scary army no matter what I do. (I think I took a fairly favorable engagement with locusts + roaches attacking the ground while my corruptors killed all the colossi, all my **** died but it delayed him enough for me to get more swarm hosts out to kill his attack and I was pretty far ahead for the rest of the game, though again w/o knowing it necessarily).
Looks like the awful Terran (and yeah he's def bad, obviously, he had the depots down in his wall) was just starting to mine gas when my attack hit around 6:00-7:00, so factory was a long way off. If you pull all the Terran units back that's good, and yeah they can hold the wall (if they aren't awful like this dude) but they're paying money to do it and that probably helps equalize the game to some degree since it takes so much time before they have more raxes or a factory at home?
the main part of the vP game was how can you have such a min/gas sink that isnt part of your army for so long and have him either not know it, not punish you for it, or not defend it. 18bl is a sht load, and basically shouldnt lose to anything except skytoss lol..
depots down lol.. pretty sure you either 1 base or 3 base behind failed 2rax, but if he goes gas (double..?) behind and has no production in his main he def did it wrong. should obv just make a rax in his base if he isnt spending mins on a cc, and 1 marine and a wall > inf lings and you'd never be cost effective. even without a rax, i doubt you could get too far ahead if his marines are doing anything on your side of the map before he builds one and fends the lings off
New season started today, I played some ranked, got placed in diamond again (this game is so dumb, why would you do that Blizzard), 6-10 :/ playing pretty bad. Lost a lot of ZvTs to early hellion + rax pressure that did too much damage.
I think you should try 5-6 Queen opening style to help with the hellion harass. I don't think I've ever regretted making extra queens. So good vs hellions and vanilla marines, obv good vs banshees if you miss a scout, great for spreading creep faster in the mid game, and can help vs single medivac drops, will at least buy time for your army to deal with. The only time you should lose to hellions is if you engage them without enough zerglings to kill them (obv only engage on creep if you can), or if they do something douchey like 2 factory blueflame that you don't scout, which barely anyone does anymore.
I always try to have 10-14 lings at home and just deflect with queens while trying to push the creep out while droning. If they yolo runby I just **** them up with my speedlings when they come to deep into the creep jungle. Hellions die extremely fast on creep unless they get good positioning, which is hard to do when zerglings are moving at light speed.
Example: http://www.twitch.tv/killerwalski/b/519982183?t=21m - you can see I didn't even really need the spine. To be fair I had done an early attack and forced a lift on his natural when speed hit with about 16 lings, buying time for me to spread creep out. He comes back in true ape fashion at ~23 minutes. You see how it went for him. He killed like 9-10 drones, msg him and ask him if it was worth it. If my micro wasn't potato I could have lost much less considering I had plenty of zerglings to deal with them, I just kind of farted and didn't get the rest of my army into position in time.
I mean just look at the joke of an army size he moves out with at ~24:20, before it gets blown up by my favorite special tactic.
Last edited by Kowalski; 04-15-2014 at 03:24 AM.
I think 5 was something I was doing for a bit and then stopped when I forgot to do it. I'll try to remember to start doing it again because I almost always had the minerals to spare and like you said I almost never regretted having that extra queen.
What timing are you supposed to use in terms of when you build queens versus your 3rd hatch? Usually I go hatch first, natural and pool finish at same time, build 4 queens, then drop a third base, then make a 5th queen. What about the 6th one?
I'm not even really sure but I either build a 5th one right after I drop the 3rd hatch to protect the ramp to my nat, or if I forget just build a queen as soon as the 3rd hatch finishes. 6th one I guess could just be built from the 3rd hatch while you have #5 building from your natural or something as the 3rd hatch is morphing. I've been sticking with 5 lately, seems to do alright.
I guess it depends how you define 5 - I always get a 5th from my third hatch, but I'm not sure if that really counts since it's there for injecting and not creep spreading/mobile defense, and my third hatch isn't usually finishing until after Terran starts reaper/hellion harass there anyway.
Ya sucks to be you :P Still, it will level itself out in a short time. On one hand it sucks you're going to initially play people with higher mmr than your true mmr, on the other hand it won't take long to reach your true mmr and have an expected 50% wr, but with a cool blue border fo free.
Was going to do my placements tonight but I find myself alright drunk before sundown again.