I don't think it would need a lot of games to be find like skilled players. If you play someone who is much better then you in Starcraft you are going to lose almost every time and if you play someone much worse then you then you will win almost every time. The only time winning and losing is going to be a toss up is when you are playing like skilled players. This should make grouping like skilled players pretty easy even in a "small" number of games (though I think a small number of Starcraft games is likely not really all that small for these purposes).


I wrote a long response to this but decided it better to just say I could probably say what I wanted to say better, but it would fall on deaf ears. I honestly think the implications of what you are saying are absurd and I do not know why you would be so stubborn but I do not want to argue so I will just concede.

You honestly think it's "absurd" for the best and most active players from the beta (who make up a lot of the current top 200) to be among the first players to qualify diamond?

Guess there's nothing more to say then.

So you're claiming that one of the absolute most difficult things for a ranking system to do (figure out if 2 players are "equally skilled"), and the whole point of all of them, which they all do pretty poorly with small numbers of games, is "not complicated" to apply to an entire group of 100 players?

Oh and hey look, I just got promoted to 4v4 diamond. It looks like this division has been under construction for a few days, which is not particularly surprising at this point in time, and there are 72 people so far. My win/loss ratio is 50-25, and it's taken a ridiculous number of games for my MMR to settle down enough to advance from silver to diamond, winning something like 28 of my last 35 games or something.

If it's really trying to put people in divisions based on approximate skill, everybody else in the division should be fairly comparable, right?

Or are you going to claim that the guys who have less than 50% win ratios who got placed in the same division are of similar skill to me?

Lets not ignore the fact that it took 70 games for the system to decide I wasn't really a silver player after I got unlucky with teammates in qualifications. *SEVENTY GAMES* to put me in a big wide-open classification group.

Yet you think this same system can somehow group players of similar skill, in a much narrower range, with a couple dozen games?

I'm not the one who needs to "learn maths" sir, nor am I the one trolling here. That's all you buddy.

It's never trying to find out if players are equally skilled. That idea doesn't even make sense. My hypothesis is that it just gets players that are close to each other in whatever ranking they've established by some amount and puts them together. That's not that complicated. The mere fact that it appears to be the way that it works is evidence of that.

It would also kind of explain why it takes so long to get promoted when you run like 40-7 or something, but that's pure speculation on my part.

^^ +1

When did we start talking about 4v4? I also never said anything about equally skilled players, I said similarly skilled players.

Win ratios have nothing to do with skill. Come on now.

How can I be trolling if I make a claim, back it up with facts and then ask you to do the same only to have you respond with: That can't be possible because I said so.

What you are doing is the definition of trolling. And I know my maths you can rest assured of that

It saddens me that my ignore list has to grow to 2.

It doesn't appear to *be* the way it works. The way it appears to work is that it creates a division, fills it up, then creates another. The division I just got promoted to in 4v4 contains a very wide range of point values and win/loss ratios, and I started talking about 4v4 because I just got promoted, and the range of players in that division is so ridiculously wide that it's absurd to think that somehow we were grouped because we were all of "similar skill", or that we're even somewhat close together on any sensible ranking formula.

The reason it takes so long to get promoted is because when you're winning a huge percentage of games, the system doesn't have a very high degree of confidence that your current rating reflects your "true" rating. It waits for things to settle down before advancing you to a different league.

It has to use *something*. What are you suggesting it use? The ladder points in the division I just got promoted to range all the way from 2400 to low 100s, and the win ratios are all over the place.

What facts?

The only "facts" you've provided are a thread that makes nonsensical claims that don't even directly relate to the question of how people get added to particular divisions.


It doesn't sadden me at all to say that you're not the first moron incapable of seeing common sense to add me to their ignore list. I just gave you evidence of a division that was constructed that can't possibly have been due to similar skill or rankings. You've given as evidence a thread that makes nonsensical claims, as I've already pointed out.

Again, the troll here is not me.

+1 Gospy is the worst.

That means a lot coming from a random

Is this the part where everyone chimes in grudgematch!

Katy Perry Fighting

what does it matter what division youre in anyways? its not like youre stuck playing only the ppl from your division... i dont get what u guys were arguing about :/

pheeeeely deeely

lol

sup yo!

1v14rollz~

I just piss myself off sometimes.
TvP
I have two starports up both with techlabs, and scout him warping in a darkshrine.
My solution?
build an EB and put a turret in my min line and at my ramp.
He puts a pylon on an outer edge of my base, observer gives him vision, he warps in 4-5 DTs, runs to my mineral line, kills turret in like 3 seconds. gg

srsly

you should be able to go on epic tilt and wager ladder points in custom games

i hate using ravens.. slow, micro intensive, cost too much gas

maybe it's just my limited playing experience.

Got *****tompted by mutas in my 3rd match. Looks like stargate>phoenix is pretty important PvZ. As well as scouting.

Phoenix counter mutas, and I think you mean PvZ.

ROFL

Let's say you're terrible for your first hundred or so games and lose lots of them. Then you start making progress and are playing on at least the level of a silver player. To what length will being bad for so long prolong the time it takes to move up to silver?

^ it can take alot of games. can take 50 games maybe more, maybe less. depends on how low your hidden rating is.

Apparently I'm the only player new to this ****ing game, because I'm losing every round. In bronze. So ****ing frustrating.

Just keep playing. Don't worry about moving up. Your placement really doesn't make a big difference because eventually eventhough you're in Bronze you'll be playing against Silver players. You will get better, trust me. I honestly wish I was in Bronze.

I was sitting right where you are now, I was horrible. I had no clue what I was doing. I just kept playing, kept reading things every now and then, and eventually you start getting better. Don't take any loss personally, it's just a game.

I have heard that the more games you have played, the longer it takes for you to move around because the ranking system has to be sure that you're ready to move up. Just keep pounding it out. You'll eventually be at least a Gold level player if you keep playing. And with a couple hundred games under your belt you will be better, guaranteed.

I'm not pointing the finger at anybody, but JugJug (rageotones) played a couple hundred games in Bronze before getting moved into Silver. Also, there is someone else new to the game who is in your same boat. Just practice, practice, practice.

EDIT:

I just looked at your most recent game's build order. You're kind of getting yourself behind just because of your build order.

9-pylon
12-gateway (you can also get gateway at 13)
14-assimilator
16-pylon (your 2nd pylon went at 15)
17-cybernetics core

This is where you went wrong. As soon as your gateway is done, put out your cybernetics core. Then get a zealot if you want. As soon as your cybercore is done, your zealot will finish and you can immediately get a stalker. Or, you can hold off on the zealot and just get that first stalker when your cybercore is done.

Then put a 3rd pylon down at 21. And I deviate from here, but I think 2nd gateway at 23 is good and 2nd gas at 25 supply. Try doing that. Practice against AI to see how the timing works.

Also, if you want, let me know and we can go into a custom match, you play against the AI and i'll watch what you're doing and guide you along.

EDITx2: Yeah, I checked another BO from your PvZ game and you're all over the place. Have to refine your BO first. Let me know!

EDITx3: Another point I want to make, looking at your BOs. Optimally, right around the 7min mark you should be somewhere around 50 supply, meaning 50/x. Your last 2 games were 34/x and 32/x so you can see you're slightly behind. I can help you fix that within about 10 minutes.