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02-01-2014 , 04:44 PM
So, say I can build any composition I want with 130 supply (I basically could with the bank I had) against his endgame army. What is it?
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02-01-2014 , 04:59 PM
I was thinking about this while I was at the gym. You actually need a fairly complex and technical army, but I think it can be done (keep in mind that a raven/viking/thor/tank army, as powerful as it is, isn't anywhere as easy to control as say, a Protoss A-MOVE DEATHBALL OF DOOM).

If we assume at the point of his engagement, he has raven/viking/thor with some miscellaneous other tank/hellbat units, I think you need

-7-8 Infestors to fungal the vikings and ravens and keep them in place. Seeker missile does do wonders against infestors, but while you're staring at your army, it shouldn't be that difficult to "see red infestor, click red infestor away"
-Corruptors to actually kill the ravens (and to turn into brood lords after you kill the vikings and ravens). Vikings are good vs corruptors. However, unlike vikings, corruptors can actually serve a purpose when all the air units are dead. I'd probably make a number not too dissimilar from the viking count. Remember, you're fungaling all the vikings.
-Swarm hosts and brood lords for space control and to ensure the thors can't just walk under your army and kill everything. Thors are pretty bad against both of these units, especially if they're caught in the fungal meant for the air units.

If he is more tank heavy, then you can go lighter on the swarm hosts and make more broods. I won't pretend to even be close to an expert on late game ZvT, but I think if you actually pay attention to what the Terran is making instead of just spam remaxing on the first thing that comes to your mind, it isn't actually THAT difficult.

Another hard thing is keeping the Terran on the other side of the map while you're re-assembling your perfect army composition.

So to answer your question completely...

8 infestors = 16 supply
25 corruptors = 50 supply
some combination of ~ 56 supply of broods and swarm hosts. maybe something like

10 swarm hosts = 30 supply
6-7 brood lords= brings you right up to that 130 supply mark

Also keep in mind when you have a bank this large, you don't need 70 drones.
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02-01-2014 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
I won't pretend to even be close to an expert on late game ZvT, but I think if you actually pay attention to what the Terran is making instead of just spam remaxing on the first thing that comes to your mind, it isn't actually THAT difficult.
Plz post replays of you succeeding vs these armies



I think infestor control is the hardest part of these engagements. If they don't get out of position with their ravens then with their tanks sieging up underneath, your infestors are in siege tank range to be able to fungal the air and that doesn't go so well for infestors.
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02-01-2014 , 06:36 PM
I rarely do

the spam remax thing applies to me worst of all

i have a terrible habit of making ~9 ultras and nothing else
guess how that works out
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02-01-2014 , 06:40 PM
is neural not viable vs heavy thor armies?

i have a really hard time believing infestor micro is tougher than raven/viking.. one side you get a 5s heads up, the other you get about a tenth of that
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02-01-2014 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
i have a really hard time believing infestor micro is tougher than raven/viking.. one side you get a 5s heads up, the other you get about a tenth of that
I mean, yeah, it's easy for your ravens/vikings to get fungaled. It's also then easy for you to spam seeker missiles and siege up tanks and watch infestors and corruptors melt.

Neural isn't something I've ever really seen used effectively vs Terran, I think. Maybe vs battlecruisers.
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02-01-2014 , 07:16 PM
well op fungal still holds them still, and cant infestors outrun seekers fairly easily? thats also a lot of energy to dump into one fight if you spam them down with no assurance to get hits.

if you burrow infestor outside of detection range but inside the "active zone" of HSM does it still go off? will it hit where it burrowed or where it lost vision?
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02-01-2014 , 07:50 PM
Infestors are pretty slow, I doubt they can outrun. Not sure about if you get out of detection range and burrow.
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02-01-2014 , 07:54 PM
if the game is at the point we're discussing, trading a seeker missile for an infestor is a good trade
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02-02-2014 , 12:06 AM
Played in kaitlyn's subscriber tournament today, got to the finals (nothing impressive, beat a silver T 2-0 and a gold P 2-0) and took game 1 off a really good masters Protoss only to lose games two and three

Watching the casts of the games they're all pretty boring though. Plus kaitlyn and her friend she casts with aren't that great at casting. In game 2 vs the masters player, when his army (obv I had no idea what his comp was) first entered my vision with like six void rays and I had zero anti-air, I was like **** I have to delay this push so I sent all my roaches on a runby towards his natural while I built an infestation pit and started pathogen glands; my roaches got massacred at his base, but I at least had time to start getting queens + infestors out back home since he sent his whole army back to deal with it, so I considered it a win since I probably would have just died to an a-move across the map if I did nothing. The casters were just like "wow that attack did nothing for goofyballer and he invested so much in it." I was like god damn it why are you making me look so stupid

Spoiler:
I died anyway even with the infestors + queens, lol me so bad



I'm sure casting isn't easy but I actually bet anyone who's ever played much poker would be pretty good at it - the important things are not only "what is this player doing" but also "what does this player think the other player is doing", the latter of which we're all much more used to thinking about than the average person. If you can constantly be thinking about and highlighting both of those things I imagine you'd do a pretty good job casting.

The game I won, he opened 4gate with three of them walling off his natural, so I stayed on two bases for super long and got a couple spines with speedlings; he poked up but didn't commit to an attack. I transitioned into roaches and he tried to take a quick third behind it, but my roaches caught him a bit off guard and I killed the wall at his natural, and then his third. I wasn't really thinking about how that would affect production at the time but apparently he took forever to rebuild any gates and his production was pretty crushed, and I eventually just overwhelmed him with roaches. He got a couple colossi out and tried to kite w/ them but I eventually picked them off and then he didn't really have anything left.

Last edited by goofyballer; 02-02-2014 at 12:15 AM.
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02-02-2014 , 12:21 AM
i hated when terrans would wall their nat with rax (mostly cloud kingdom i guess) because it was just free buildings for anything other than lings and banes. even more of a nightmare when you need the addons, but rebuilding 3 gates is ~12 warp ins? pretty big deal

you should offer to cast/be a guest caster for the next one. such a perfect in
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02-02-2014 , 02:22 AM
I'm the GOAT caster, ldo.
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02-02-2014 , 03:54 AM
Also streaming drunk Mario 3 in a few minutes. http://www.twitch.tv/needle77
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02-02-2014 , 06:07 AM
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02-03-2014 , 08:05 AM
sooooo are we gonna have the random pool? 0ev gambling, small buyin, winner gets custom undertitle? could at least create a new thread to see how many people are in, we dont necessarily need 32 people anyway
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02-03-2014 , 03:16 PM
ive gotten really nostalgic for sc2 lately

bliz plz fix gaem

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02-03-2014 , 03:18 PM
join the SC2 fantgasy league karak
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02-03-2014 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Streamed for four hours tonight and while Twitch stats says I had up to 2 viewers, I didn't see anyone in chat or my viewer list the whole time. h8 my life
If you have your dashboard open, it counts as one viewer I believe.
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02-04-2014 , 04:46 AM
Yeah, it was 2 other viewers besides me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
if you burrow infestor outside of detection range but inside the "active zone" of HSM does it still go off? will it hit where it burrowed or where it lost vision?
I tested this out - once the seeker missile targets the unit (i.e. the 5 second lock-on period passes and it starts attacking), lack of detection will not stop it. You can burrow the infestor and get it out of detection range of the raven, but the missile will still follow and hit.
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02-04-2014 , 07:18 AM
ah nice
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02-04-2014 , 10:04 PM
Balance patch is in w/ the new Daedalus. The new ramp:





(my Protoss walls are bad, sue me)

Not any worse now than Derelict Watcher was, it seems.
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02-05-2014 , 07:24 PM
David Kim talking balance

OP is being updated w/ questions and answers. Popcorn.gif for this one:

Quote:
Q: What are you guys thoughts on the raven. I have the feeling only the raven makes mech in TvZ a viabel option. But i also see a lot of zergs complaining about the ravens power. Do you have plans with the raven in the future?

A: We like the unit as a whole. The main thing we're watching for with this unit is the mass Raven case in TvZ that allows Terran to just turtle the whole game while making a ridiculous number of Ravens. If this becomes a common trend or one of the best ways to play, we would need to address that.

Q: Do you see any problems with Zerg of lacking Anti-Air especially early (for example phoenix harass) and lategame (for example vs. Mass Raven/Battlecruiser)

A: Late game mass Raven/BC turtling play is something we're watching for. If it becomes clear that it's an issue, we'll take steps to address it.
PDD/seeker nerfs would make me so happy
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02-05-2014 , 08:30 PM
do people even make bcs instead of just more ravens?
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02-05-2014 , 09:01 PM
Just won this TvZ. From here (note the single SCV):



To here:



to be fair, he was not very good.
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02-05-2014 , 09:02 PM
Spoiler:
DAMN YOU, MULES!!!
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