They should make mines burrow 2 seconds slower on creep. That's better than either of those changes.

Can't imagine Toss would be happy about full energy vipers, gg colossi. Also I question the effectiveness of buffed vipers in lategame ZvT if they still can't stop mines from firing.

Oh, really? You're just now realizing this? I hate the way Blizz talks about balance, every time this guy opens his mouth it's like he thinks he's omnipotent about overall balance while directly contradicting things he said as recently as three weeks ago:

Moron.

vipers already have the easiest energy source, full energy at the start seems way overkill. they seem way too powerful vP already...

goofy, you personally used recent finishing positions as an argument that zvt is too weak... why get mad when he uses the same logic?

I'm just trying to win stupid arguments on the internet using logic that the people I'm arguing with believe in for some reason, since they care more about who won the latest tournament than about things like "whether or not it's actually possible for good Zergs to beat good Terrans in late macro games with biomine". David Kim isn't arguing with people, he's making statements of fact based on stupid pretenses - "Zerg won WCS KR S1". Why? Because Soulkey had to start all-in-ing when it became apparent that taking a macro game was impossible. "Dreamhack had ZvZ finals" - oh cool so euro tournaments are the standards we use now.

I said the same thing when people were like "ZvP is balanced" in WoL - well, no, it wasn't, and if the winrate was near 50% it's because Protoss dominated the midgame and Zerg dominated the lategame. The extent to which winrates are close now for ZvT (they aren't, but let's say they were) is similar - if Zerg can all-in early or lose late, that's kind of stupid and not indicative of a "balanced" game. Balance is deeper than "who's winning", it's also why they're winning.

Viper change seems awful. That colossus timing is already razor thin and vipers immediately coming out with enough energy to cast two spells seems way too powerful.

Other two changes seem good. Bob's suggestion about widow mines is also good.

Like, I'm not happy about (WCS spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched)



I just know that for all the morons (like Blizzard) that only care about who's winning to determine balance, that's the sort of thing that's required to get their attention and fix it.

I'm not fully blaming David Kim for this. He's the spokesman. It's like blaming the project manager when a project doesn't get finished on schedule. Yeah, it's ultimately his responsibility. Is he really the one to blame, though? Probably not.

the 2nd quote from david kim is like a month old at least.

Soulkey had just beaten innovation among other things and zergs were doing about 50% in every matchup

i also dont think saying zerg loses late game is really true. some games they sit on muta ling bling, sometimes stuck on 2/2 even, for an eternity, which isnt really feasible if you cant trade close to efficiently. games where they get to ultras as well seem way closer, esp cause the mass marine balls that are still on the map have zero chance vs ultras. also seems like often they stay on 4 base too long, or get too greedy and end up losing 4th and 5th. it hasnt been all that long since hellbat nerf, so adjusting to something else takes time. think its quite soon to get so up in arms over it.

A game in which I come back after being down 7 drones to 33 SCVs 9 minutes in where he has 3 CCs done and a fourth starting.

Cliffs: marauder/tank armies are bad vs muta ling

http://drop.sc/353952

Nope. IEM Shanghai, July 26th.

half a month is like a month old at least

Vipers start with full energy seems gross (and I am zerg). Surely OP vs P. Both Hive rushing and turtling with swarm hosts. Why not start with enough for one yoink or blinding cloud? I suppose the thinking is the buff isn't too strong because of feedback but I dunno mang.

They never do subtle changes, always ridiculously over the top imo to the point its potentially balance ruining. Buffs can be subtle. I have never seen them consider something like a HP change to a weak unit or something. Like Hydra's are weak why not give enough HP so they can survive one extra attack from zealots and stalkers or something? (just made up bs example). Ever seen a +5HP buff on a unit or something since beta?

Combining mech and air upgrades, again ridiculous, they tried this once and it failed. Why are they buffing Terran? They don't see enough mech so let's buff a race that is already winning more than 50% in each MU? With the viper change I can't see this doing anything vs Zerg so its for vs P only?

Only 1. makes any sense to me.

I like that change. Fits perfectly. Mines stay same for defense, get nerfed when attacking (will allow zerg to reach 3/3 adrenal more easily which is really the biggest thing in ZvT right now. Terran so cost efficient midgame and if they get 3/3 first its a massacre. The overseer change helps, but I think widow mine burrow time is really a big problem here. They should make widow mines more expensive and take away drilling claws.

Blizz has this ******ed determination now to never nerf things; if something is OP, just buff the other races.

Just more great innovations from the studio that brought you Terrible, Terrible Damage.

I agree with most of this. When I'm not coming off a tilting ladder loss, I tend to think the game is balanced pretty well atm. It seems much more balanced than the end of wol and is more fun to watch too. I see no need at all for a patch with multiple HUGE changes.

Full energy vipers is so dumb. I'm not sure vipers need a buff at all, but why not try a smaller change first? Like 25 or 50 more energy or giving vipers an energy upgrade.

I do like the idea of an overseer speed buff. This is should help zergs deal with mines a little bit, and there is no chance that this change would accidently break the game unlike a full energy viper buff.

I think they should give IT's upgrades back too btw. IT's are rare as hens teeth these days. They went full ****** with that nerf. Ok infestor too strong lets go from 3/3 to 0/0 on ITs AND egg is weaker? Why not just not give them the weapon upgrades since from a lore perspective that actually makes sense imo after all its a marine :P. As they are they melt and are useful for exactly two things, harassing worker lines if you sneak burrowed infestors there, triggering naked mines.

as opposed to before when they were used for fighting entire armies and breaking down walls and bases?

"Rare as hens teeth"? Are you 80 years old?

Hahaha.

I think 3/3 is too strong but maybe restore their health to what it was before so they at least hatch and fire weakly at some stuff. ITs are useless now.

I don't understand this at all. Mines OP...let's make Overseers a little faster? LOL why not just nerf the damn mines?

welp here's my first game since saturday.

http://drop.sc/353968

went okay (early on im pretty sure there's a bunch of really lame stuff like forgetting to put scv's in the gas that I planned to use for reapers and a lot more that i cant remember, but that's because the gf kept trying to tell me some story SHUT UP I JUST STARTED A GAME YOU COULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT ANY TIME BUT NOW)

Anyway I'm working on hotkeying my units better (still huge fail, and at the very end I did resort to F2 sadly Using 1 2 and 3 is still a bit awkward and I'm trying to get a feel for it (like i said, first game) but it'll happen. For some reason 1-T-A-click, 2-E-3-A-click was freaking impossible. But sure makes seiging and stimming a breeze, or at least it will once i get used to it. Also did a sort of 1rax expand instead of building 3 raxes. that seems to work out way better than what i was doing. Once i get simple mechanics of those hotkeys down more i'll work on stuff like shift-sending scvs back to work after building ****

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXxajmtOfc#t=1m03s

still plenty of bad stuff like failing to rally a couple of buildings, and not hotkeying my **** constantly as it got built. Actually it's just a massive list throughout the game, but i think it went a little bit better than the one i posted

Held off a cannon rush. I AM SUCH A PRO

do you rally your production buildings to multiple units in your army?