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08-11-2013 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Played about 10-15 years as Austria last night. Some notes...

Seems like the missions let you wage war as often as you want, as long as your manpower allows. My wars went as follows:
- Flanders declares independence right after the game starts, I take back Antwerpen and the one between Brabant and Vlaandaren; as someone pointed out in EU4 forums, pretty annoying that by breaking away with provinces >100 warscore, even when their revolution fails I can't take all my provinces back
- I get a "claims on Northern Italy" mission giving me claims on Brescia, Cremona, and one other province from Venice, take them from Venice/Milan pretty easily. I like the new "claims" system where you frequently get claims on a province but that doesn't necessarily translate into getting a core on it like it did in EU3. Still undecided how I feel about being able to just spend power to get cores super fast though, having it for 50 years in EU3 made it feel like it meant something and not something that's basically a given once you take a province.
- With my 2/5/1 king, I get quite a few "unclear maps" or whatever events (the one that asks if you want to press the issue to get a claim) for Treviso, Friuli, and Elsass, didn't have time to wage these wars though except for taking Elsass on the way back from a lowlands expedition.
- Go back to the lowlands to finish off Flanders and also take Gelre and Friesland, which I barely even noticed I had cores on lol
- Missions I actually turned down during this timeframe: got one to put Brohemia in a PU (WTF THAT IS SO STRONK) but they were allied with Hungary and my manpower was low, also one to take France's provinces in the Spanish Netherlands region

So yeah, having a choice of 3 missions means you'll have lots of opportunities to go for aggressive expansion if you want it. I did spend almost the entire demo having 0 manpower; patience is required if you're actually playing with the long term in mind.

The monarch power system feels like macroing in SC2, gotta keep my power low by spending it on stuff or else I'm not making the best use of my resources. I didn't pay attention for awhile and then all of a sudden I had like 900 diplo power, lol.

It did feel pretty easy. But then again I was Austria so that's probably realistic. I thought it was funny when I looked at the Flanders rebels at the start of the game like WTF THEY HAVE LIKE 27 REGIMENTS HOW DO I KILL THAT, and then I looked at my troops and was like LOL I HAVE 60.

Anyone understand the trade system? Might try a little time as Venice. And yeah, I guess Venice was busy getting dunked by the Ottomans in 1492 so that's why their navy is nowhere to be found when you attack them? In EU3 (and I certainly hope at EU4 start) they have a much stronger naval presence.
#goofymacro crossing borders!
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08-11-2013 , 06:52 PM
Haha. I accumulated a bunch of money and didn't get any mercenaries or anything either, so fishy
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08-11-2013 , 07:59 PM
Not sure I like MOBA's. Im 1-10 in Dota2 so far despite pretty much always having more kills than deaths and not doing anything obviously game losing personally. I go support heroes and just stay in lane most of the time. Meanwhile there's usually at least one disconnect and someone who goes 1-10 always on my team, never on opposition.

Meh **** it back to laddering SC2?
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08-11-2013 , 08:49 PM
pretty sure 1 rax fe is probably the best/easiest for silver. reapers will prob actually win you a couple games overall, but i think its better to not get caught up over microing it and floating a ton of mins OR losing it because you arent paying enough attention and just do a really simple open

i still do it vT cause theres so many stupid opens imo, having marines out and just scv scout seems safer than bo gambling
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08-11-2013 , 11:06 PM
So lets say i spot a 4-gate or similar heavy pressure. As a terran, I....

just start cranking out as many units as I can, maybe don't build an ebay right away and don't try to immediately tech to starport, etc? throw down a bunker? Although vs blink a bunker isn't that good

I mean v. zerg if i know ling pressure or a baneling bust is coming I've got that down pretty well; wall off, build a bunker, widow mines and a seige tank if possible. But if I lose to some early-medium heavy pressure it's almost always v. Protoss.
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08-11-2013 , 11:15 PM
I'm gonna have to look up a 1Rax expand order. Figure I could wing it but I gotta figure out when to add on rax and more importantly when to get gas>techlab>stim because that's pretty critical obv. start teching from there
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08-11-2013 , 11:16 PM
4gate isn't heavy pressure, it's all in.

You build lots of bunkers at your front, get SCVs ready to be pulled to repair.
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08-11-2013 , 11:17 PM
semantics

also i have yet to see a legit 4gate at my level, besides that one matchup where the plat guy destroyed me.
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08-11-2013 , 11:20 PM
1 rax fe you just 11 depot, 12 rax, 16 orbital then build cc on 400 mins. can either add 2 rax or 2 gas after and go from there

addons depend on matchup and factory. if i dont need a factory i usually reactor first rax tl 2nd, reactor third, but that could be suboptimal. you dont need to rush out stim really anyway
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08-11-2013 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
So lets say i spot a 4-gate or similar heavy pressure. As a terran, I....

just start cranking out as many units as I can, maybe don't build an ebay right away and don't try to immediately tech to starport, etc? throw down a bunker? Although vs blink a bunker isn't that good

I mean v. zerg if i know ling pressure or a baneling bust is coming I've got that down pretty well; wall off, build a bunker, widow mines and a seige tank if possible. But if I lose to some early-medium heavy pressure it's almost always v. Protoss.
don't tech at all. assuming you've done the normal 1rax FE into 3rax + gas, you're probably starting your stim. it's fine to get this upgrade, because you're going to need it once you hold off his build.

you hold off his different all ins in different ways. generally, there are only a few protoss all ins. common themes are that it's okay to lift your CC and retreat into your main, because he's still on one base.

gateway pressure (usually four gates, rarely five, sometimes is similar):
get bunkers and as many units as you can. these all ins are usually only stalker/zealot, because they usually involve a single gas and sentries are too expensive. add a fourth or fifth barracks if you find yourself with too much money.

three bunkers is usually okay assuming you have SCVs to repair, but you can't have enough if you think you need to be safe. grab an ebay and a factory whenever you have the money, but these aren't priorities if you think you might die.

3 gate blink stalker:

this one is harder, because a perfectly executed blink stalker build is always a pain in the ass. marauders basically hard counter stalkers early on, so get as many of them as you can (out of one rax) while making marines with your other two-four barracks. build a bunker in your main where you think he might blink in and have two more at your natural. if you can kill the mothership core, his ability to blink into your main is gone. SCVs are surprisingly good vs stalkers, so pull them if you need the extra DPS/trapping power.

DTs

have to scout this. if he has really early gas, it's usually DTs or stargate. get an ebay and throw down a turret at your natural. maybe get one in your main too if you think he might be dropping/if you're not sure if it's stargate.

Oracle

lots of marines, a turret in your main and natural, and pull your SCVs fast as hell when you see the oracle. don't think "oh my marines will be there in 5 seconds; i can keep mining." i think you need five marines to kill an oracle (might be four).

void ray

bunkers, a turret is helpful, and as many marines as you can get. if you kill the void rays you win because they often have only zealots (and maybe a sentry and a few stalkers).

if for some reason you already have a factory, getting a widow mine or two is helpful. these all ins rarely come with detection and essentially grant you a free unit kill (+splash). plus they scare the **** out of protoss.
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08-11-2013 , 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
pretty sure 1 rax fe is probably the best/easiest for silver. reapers will prob actually win you a couple games overall, but i think its better to not get caught up over microing it and floating a ton of mins OR losing it because you arent paying enough attention and just do a really simple open

i still do it vT cause theres so many stupid opens imo, having marines out and just scv scout seems safer than bo gambling
the advantage of a reaper opening in low levels is that no one denies scouts well so you can figure out exactly what they're doing. i even make two reapers before getting a factory in TvZ and TvP just so i can fully scout.
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08-11-2013 , 11:26 PM
yeah kinda depends on the matchup, vs zerg going baneling bust i'll go 2 tl 1 reactor just to get more marauders early against ling bane, also go for the factory earlier (often will build 2 factories for my midgame since mines and tanks are pretty awesome TvZ.) So that obv means I'd take the gas. Once they start adding mutas then it's no problem to start making vikings and switch to making less marauders
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08-11-2013 , 11:30 PM
may have to start making reapers. Another unit that I've made in like 2 games. Probably a huge leak, like when I never made widow mines
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08-11-2013 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
yeah kinda depends on the matchup, vs zerg going baneling bust i'll go 2 tl 1 reactor just to get more marauders early against ling bane, also go for the factory earlier (often will build 2 factories for my midgame since mines and tanks are pretty awesome TvZ.) So that obv means I'd take the gas. Once they start adding mutas then it's no problem to start making vikings and switch to making less marauders
you don't really need marauders vs ling bane unless you just want things to sponge damage. not a terrible idea but adding in hellions is also a good thing
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08-11-2013 , 11:35 PM
mostly to sponge damage, yes. Cuz my splitting micro is bad. I do try to use helions once i beat the initial bust and move out on the map
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08-12-2013 , 12:27 AM
why you make vikings vs mutas? marauders are also pretty bad vs lings so its good to not overmake. hellions are good if you can control them separately from bio, but if you run them into your bio ball when lings overwhelm, it kinda defeats the purpose

bsball, i also reaper almost always, but even the first ~10 times maybe i was so concerned with not losing it i would end up with like 700 mins goofy style (have since gotten over that)

arent tanks better than mines vs blink stalker allin/pressures?
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08-12-2013 , 12:29 AM
oh man the dota 2 finals... can say i dont even play or watch much dota anymore but it crushed every sc2 events ive ever seen :/.

Way to go valve, and sick finals. Vods would be worth it for those interested. Dat last game, holy ****.
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08-12-2013 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
why you make vikings vs mutas? marauders are also pretty bad vs lings so its good to not overmake. hellions are good if you can control them separately from bio, but if you run them into your bio ball when lings overwhelm, it kinda defeats the purpose

bsball, i also reaper almost always, but even the first ~10 times maybe i was so concerned with not losing it i would end up with like 700 mins goofy style (have since gotten over that)

arent tanks better than mines vs blink stalker allin/pressures?
yea but tanks are really expensive
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08-12-2013 , 12:43 AM
idk if i ever make mines against toss besides as stationary annoying map scouts
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08-12-2013 , 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
why you make vikings vs mutas?
because they fly and are anti air, idk, how do you defeat mutas, i just make marines and a few vikings
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08-12-2013 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy
So I'm watching WCS AM and TI3 simultaneously. Noob question, why is there only one map in DOTA? and LoL? I mean it's ok I guess, there's only one chessboard, but I fail to see how they couldn't at least have another one or two every so often to keep things fresh, keep the meta from getting stagnant etc.
the meta is never stagnant because there are like 100 heroes to choose from and a small change to 5-10 heroes can have a huge impact on the metagame.

if sc2 had like 20 different races you wouldn't need so many maps.
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08-12-2013 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy
Not sure I like MOBA's. Im 1-10 in Dota2 so far despite pretty much always having more kills than deaths and not doing anything obviously game losing personally. I go support heroes and just stay in lane most of the time. Meanwhile there's usually at least one disconnect and someone who goes 1-10 always on my team, never on opposition.

Meh **** it back to laddering SC2?
yea the long run is going to come extremely slowly when you solo queue. especially if you're playing support for players who don't know what they're doing. best way to win in dota vs other noobs is to get a hero that can carry late game but is also useful early on like lifestealer/chaos knight/sven/juggernaut. the next best thing would be to get a high impact solo mid hero like queen of pain/pudge/puck/storm spirit and just dominate the entire map but you have to be quite a bit better than the other players to pull that off w/o much help from your team.
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08-12-2013 , 02:34 AM
marines/medivacs gonna work out a lot better than vikings against any real amount of mutas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbynator
oh man the dota 2 finals... can say i dont even play or watch much dota anymore but it crushed every sc2 events ive ever seen :/.

Way to go valve, and sick finals. Vods would be worth it for those interested. Dat last game, holy ****.
one of my friends was watchin so i watched a bit last 2 nights. actually was really sick despite having ~next to no idea what all the spells/w.e were. 1.4 mil 5 ways sounds pretty nice.
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08-12-2013 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah^3
yea the long run is going to come extremely slowly when you solo queue. especially if you're playing support for players who don't know what they're doing. best way to win in dota vs other noobs is to get a hero that can carry late game but is also useful early on like lifestealer/chaos knight/sven/juggernaut. the next best thing would be to get a high impact solo mid hero like queen of pain/pudge/puck/storm spirit and just dominate the entire map but you have to be quite a bit better than the other players to pull that off w/o much help from your team.
I am just a beginner. My record isn't 1-10 in my last 11 games, its 1-11 all time . Just frustrating not to get a few wins, some wins were decided by one player beasting, dunno what they were doing in the limited hero game, he was never on my team obv :P.
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08-12-2013 , 05:22 PM
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9628133352#1

Sorry if already posted couldnt find it, but testpatch with big buffs to overseer speed and vipers.

Which i think are two very precise and very good buffs.

Also, theyre trying out giving mech attack to air too. I guess theyre seeing a late game 3/3 hellbat+vikings +other air vs toss?

will never work because of feedback vs ravens and BCs but woteva. Buffed hellbats and vikings vs toss endgame could be nice.


ALso lol @making tanks vs full energy vipers .
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