3 bases? I'm thinking 4. There's some serious potential to take that 4th base as your 3rd or even as your natural. It's basically Entombed Valley with a free 4 bases instead of 3.
They're all pretty meh at best. Second map is complete trash (I do like the idea of that narrow bridge as in it's intriguing, but it could never be implemented competitively because it's broken as ****). First map has your first three bases defended by a single common area, and even adding your 4th and 5th yields only a single additional attack path to worry about. We're gonna see a lot of stalemate games there, I think.
Just watched a game on Massan's stream where he opened with a heavy ling attack ZvP on Akilon, did TONS of damage (killed 2-3 sentries, a gateway, main nexus), went up to quick-ish 4 bases (forget if he took a 5th eventually, think Toss denied it), held Toss on 2 bases for awhile until he eventually got a third, was maxed on roach/hydra/viper with a decent bank, and lost the game to stalker/colossus/templar deathball, all without Toss ever taking a 4th.
So I don't feel quite as bad about my game.
Funny moment was when he was about to attack with his vipers, he got some DT harassment in his bases, so he was like "ok he has dark shrine, that's good, he shouldn't have templars and my vipers will do well." Then he brings his army up and it's like 4 instant feedbacks with storm on the hydras...lol
Played a lategame ZvP and made the exact same mistakes as the replay I posted earlier. I think something that's hard about practicing this stuff and getting better is that unless you have incredibly patient friends to practice with, you can't just be like "I'm gonna practice lategame ZvP today", you get whatever matchmaking throws at you. So how many of my games even wind up being lategame ZvPs? 1 out of 10? How am I supposed to learn stuff through repetition if I only even get the chance to maybe hopefully remember it 1 out of every 10 games?
Would be nice if playing unranked let you select the race you want to play against or something.
Playing unranked (so feeling like I could **** around) in ZvZ, I did a 10 pool -> 10 gas -> super fast speed build; the initial 8 lings forced a cancel on his hatch, and when I attacked again when speed hit I won easily despite him having a couple banelings. It makes me sad how insanely easier it is to be aggressive in this matchup than defensive.
Like, I could do this every game and possibly win >half my ZvZs. But I wouldn't be getting better at SC2. :/
For my own reference, here's a sexy build Symbol did against Shine in GSL...
10 gas @ 75 mins
13 baneling nest, pull 1 drone from gas
maek banelings, win
Last edited by goofyballer; 04-27-2013 at 06:42 AM.
You could use the resume from replay option. But I guess that falls under the heading of "needing a patient friend". Find one who wants to practice late-game PvZ. You could check the practice partner thread on TL.
And Symbol's build appears to just be the standard 10pool baneling all-in. You could also just do a normal speedling all-in. Something like 15 hatch 17 gas 16 pool, make about 20 drones then non-stop lings. That's how I took a game off of owmygroin last week and how I intend to take a game off of another better Zerg if I face any today.
Pretty sure I said most of this already, but playing defensively is mostly about scouting. Probably the best scout you can do is to keep your first overlord where you can keep an eye on his natural mineral line. He should be rallying all his drones there, so if you see that he's not doing that, then you know something is up because he's spending his money and larva on something, but it's not drones, so it's units. If you see this, send a ling or two into his base to confirm what exactly it is. However, once you get past the early game, you should be playing aggressive. Especially with mutas, you should always be aiming to be the aggressor. The game becomes so much easier when you're dictating the pace instead of your opponent.
Just played one of the most annoying games ever on Newkirk city(?)... ZvP dude does a stupid little 6 zealot mothership push which I crush with queens and slow lings... I might have made too many lings but I felt I was fine. I got fastish speed because I saw the zealots coming even though they came before it finished. When he went for his 3rd I denied it, and killed two sentries that came out for some reason. I see 4 phoenix coming and take moderate damage from it, but I just droned through it while taking a 4th and teched to hydras. I push his 3rd when my roach/hydra upgrades are done and backstab his main with zerglings which killed about 12 probes. I killed his 3rd but took heavy losses due to his 10 phoenix picking up all my hydralisks and vaporizing them while chargelot archon did the usual ******ed DPS to my ****tily micro'd roaches. I figure I'll just get ultras out while pressuring and then laugh at his phoenix when they're done. I pressure his 3rd again and go for the base snipe again taking heavy losses from like infinite phoenix... I quickly remax on 2-2 roach hydra but he pushes and my hydras literally disintegrate to the phoenix while the archons and zealots kill everything else.
Did I make the wrong composition or something? I haven't seen someone make that many phoenix in forever... Seems like the guy was trolling me with his build but when you have like 15 phoenix in the air there's no way I can really kill them unless they fly by themselves over my ball of hydras and then sit there. In wings I would probably go infestors but lol @ HOTS infestors...