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04-25-2013 , 02:13 PM
1. Have a ling outside of his base.
2. How can you lose that queen? you jsut watch it getting attacked by the Zealot -.-
3. You forgot speed

6-9.30 You are just sitting there basically doing nothing. You dont have the watch towers, you don`t have lings out on the map. You prolly just gg when there is an army on your ramp.

I have no idea what the protoss is doing, hes got a lot of gas but no tech and you are not scouting too. His build was terrible.
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04-25-2013 , 02:17 PM
lol no offense but that game is like ridiculously awful

22 ****in minutes in the game and his probe is still on the watch tower omfg

1. Not enough drones.
2. Mapvision is lolbad.
3. Expansiontimeing is terrible
4. You didn`t scout once.
5. With that bank I`d probably just would go 30 mutas build 30 spines and be like what up bitch.

27:00

And the MVP-Award goes tooooooooooooooooo the probe on the watchtower.

Ahahahahahaha sry but ive never seen something like that

He retreats with 3 collosi an immortal and a bunch of stalkers lets walk over the map with 30 supply and try to kill him

29:30 ahahahaahahaahahah srsly I havent laughed so loud for months. MVP MVP MVP MVP

29:59 RIP MVP

Last edited by NiSash1337; 04-25-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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04-25-2013 , 02:24 PM
Welcome to platinum league bitchessss
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04-25-2013 , 02:31 PM
man now i have to watch this game...
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04-25-2013 , 02:33 PM
Ok honest analysis:

1. Always have a ling outside of his base and take the watchtowers.
2. It shouldn`t happen that you make mistakes that early into the game like forgetting speed. You may use an alarmclock or something to remember you, after a couple games you should automatically remember.
3. Scouting. The overlord you got at his base is still alive and you didn`t see his main at all.
4. Take more bases, use your overmins for spines and spores.
5. I`m not sure if the viperstyle is good for you, probably go with corrupters.
6. You could have easily have done a techswitch to mutas get some Swarmhosts and spine up.
7. Looking at your apm you must be ridiculously inefficent, you had like 250 apm but I have no idea how you used it.
8. Have an overseer with your army.
9. Get a macrohatch.


Basically the biggest mistakes where that there was no scouting and that you didn`t expand enough.
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04-25-2013 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
He retreats with 3 collosi an immortal and a bunch of stalkers lets walk over the map with 30 supply and try to kill him
If that's after the engagement where I snatched a couple of colossi with vipers, I had nfi what happened to all his colossi, they all just kind of disappeared to me, I thought maybe they were hallucinations or somehow I killed them all.
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04-25-2013 , 02:36 PM
Also, I didn't forget speed, in games where Protoss FEs do I really need it when I'm going to be on roaches by the time I'm engaging anything?
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04-25-2013 , 02:41 PM
biggest things i'm seeing

COUNT YOUR DRONES! You were sitting on ~60 drones the majority of the game. Very bad for your economy. Didn't you just ask about 100 posts ago how many drones you should have and how to figure that out? Seriously- it takes about 15 seconds at MOST and would have helped you out so much in this game (and I suspect it would help you out in most of your macro games).

-spend your money better (more macro hatches- we've been over this before!)
-roach/hydra is AIDS vs colossus death balls. you have hive tech, get some vipers.
-20 min in: your thought should never ever be 'let's remax on hydras vs his army that clearly has both storm and colossus tech'
-23 min in: your thought should never be 'let's remax on roaches vs his army that clearly has colossus tech'
-26 min on: we discover why remaxing on roach/hydra vs a protoss with high tech units is bad
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04-25-2013 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Also, I didn't forget speed, in games where Protoss FEs do I really need it when I'm going to be on roaches by the time I'm engaging anything?
You don't need roaches that early on. Speedlings (and spines if necessary) can easily handle any early pressure Protoss can throw at you.
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04-25-2013 , 02:43 PM
Zerg is a reactive Race. You played blind all game

Speedlings can take the watchtowers, scout for armymovements/Compositions and Expansiontimeing.
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04-25-2013 , 02:45 PM
Soooo what's my lategame composition then? That was kind of the reason I initially posted the replay.

I watched msspyte briefly yesterday and she had a similar game to this, a high econ lategame on Whirlwind against a Protoss on colossi/templar/gateway stuff. She went mostly hydra with a few roaches and some vipers for the whole game.
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04-25-2013 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
COUNT YOUR DRONES! You were sitting on ~60 drones the majority of the game. Very bad for your economy. Didn't you just ask about 100 posts ago how many drones you should have and how to figure that out?
Nothing in Starcraft is learned overnight!
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04-25-2013 , 02:48 PM
Obviously depends on how the game is going.

You could`ve gone something like swarmhost/Spines/Mutas. He would`ve had a ridiculously hard time to break this and when he moves out of his base you just wreck his main with mutas.

The armycompositions are mostly with Vipers nowadays but its probably tough to play as a beginner. Like I said Zerg is a reactive Race so it depends on what your opponent is doing.
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04-25-2013 , 02:59 PM
Lategame vs Protoss is getting better for Zerg:

Swarm Host, Hydra, Viper, Ultra can beat Skytoss ultra late game.

There are GM replays out there of this composition I can find some if you like.
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04-25-2013 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
You don't need roaches that early on. Speedlings (and spines if necessary) can easily handle any early pressure Protoss can throw at you.
I guess that kind of speaks to a general strategy shift, then. Like, typically I'm trying to mass up a lot of roaches and hydras to hit before Protoss has a deathball, so droning too long can hurt me, but it seems like this is more of a lategame style that turtles until I have the economy I want?
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04-25-2013 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I guess that kind of speaks to a general strategy shift, then. Like, typically I'm trying to mass up a lot of roaches and hydras to hit before Protoss has a deathball, so droning too long can hurt me, but it seems like this is more of a lategame style that turtles until I have the economy I want?
Droning too long can hurt you- but you want to make as few units as possible until you absolutely have to. The mindset of "Oh I'll just make these roaches now just in case and they'll still be good later" is not something you should strive for. I do believe it was day9 (lol) that said "making only units is good, and making only drones is good, but making a mix of them over and over is rarely good."
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04-25-2013 , 05:01 PM
I imagine I was done droning before I started making roaches. But I guess the difference I'm seeing is...

- what I do now: 60 drones = 2 bases full saturation plus a 3rd base on minerals only, about enough drones to max on roaches and hydras and try to end it in the midgame, economy is not in great shape for lategame, stopping at 60 means roaches come out in time to handle protoss aggression when they FE
- what I should be doing: 72 drones = 3 bases full saturation plus a 4th base on gas only, economy in better shape for lategame, and I'm guessing I need speedlings here because droning longer delays roach tech enough that I need defenses in the meantime?
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04-25-2013 , 05:39 PM
I mean, it's more complicated than just this, but a good rule of thumb (3 base vs FFE) is that you can pretty comfortably drone up to 60, like you said, if you know he's not doing a 6+gate rush (in which case just get as many units out ASAP). From there, make units until you know he's securing a third base.

From there, you have two options- you can either drone up (I usually go up to around 80+, but I like my economy), take a fourth base, and tech up (I get a spire and go mutas) while poking around with your roaches, or you can do the old DRG style and attack nonstop. Keep in mind that this second style is pretty all in-y, since he's going to have as good of an economy as you pretty soon, and roaches and hydras are bad vs splash damage.
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04-25-2013 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I guess that kind of speaks to a general strategy shift, then. Like, typically I'm trying to mass up a lot of roaches and hydras to hit before Protoss has a deathball, so droning too long can hurt me, but it seems like this is more of a lategame style that turtles until I have the economy I want?
Do a Hydra, Roach, Corruptor max. It works pretty damn well in the current meta. Old school ftw. Can be 200/200 on 4 base in 13:30 mins.

Build something like:

15 pool
16 hatch
OL
queen
Zerglingx2
drones
3rd hatch 22-23 supply
Gas straight after.
ling speed
lair
take 3 gases
hydra den
make some more lings and some static d around now
take 4th and 5th gas
16-20 hydras
4th base for mostly just gas for now
hydra range
roach warren
spire
evo chambers
(you should have like 75 drones maybe)
get 1-1 and roach speed
BOOM 200/200 when 1-1 is done

This can hold immortal sentry type all ins too because of early hydras. Make sure to scout for early game shenanigans though you may need to ling up to defend obv. You can pressure his third too with hydra ling quite early too but probably should just poke and not commit as you are teching behind.
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04-25-2013 , 09:53 PM
Here are my ladder stats:



I'm the mirror match master. Also lol TvP
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04-25-2013 , 10:02 PM
Back to playing now. Starting off easy by playing on Korea.
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04-25-2013 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by templar rage
Back to playing now. Starting off easy by playing on Korea.
There's something wrong with my phone, it hasn't alerted me to omgnarwhalz's stream turning on yet
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04-25-2013 , 10:38 PM
Didn't stream. Went 5-0 in placements and got Plat. Probably the farthest I'll ever make it on Korea because the lag was really bad.
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04-25-2013 , 11:00 PM
In news related to people that actually do stream, kaitlyn has started parting her hair down the middle instead of how she used to have it and it's seriously affecting my love affair with her.
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04-25-2013 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
In news related to creeping on female streamers, kaitlyn has started parting her hair down the middle instead of how she used to have it and it's seriously affecting my love affair with her.
FYP
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