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04-17-2013 , 05:48 PM
It would be the smallest number of people needed to have a defensible wall up by the time the lings got there, which depends on both the type of game as well as the map. This of course assumes that the player rushes to lings.
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04-17-2013 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
arent you getting diminishing returns with the more people that leave related to total? ie 1v2 should win often, 1v3 could win within x minutes, but 1v4 should basically never win?

1v4 they can hard counter you so easily, esp if they get almost all walls up before your attack hits (which should be easy)

somehow thats only happened to me once in game, altho ive prob only played 100-150 2v2 games, we got 5 or 6 raxed and died and my partner tries to blame me when he had 1 stalker and zero forges on the map
You obviously didn't watch that day9 clip. 4v4 with 3 players leaving: pool started < 1 minute (if everyone left instantly without building a worker this could be at <5s); 6 lings out before 2 minutes (12 gate is halfway complete); 6 lings arrive in base as 12 gate completes, plenty of time to take out the pylon before a zealot gets out; ~30 speed zerglings total by 4 minutes, when if all 4 opponents were protoss they could have maybe 2 zealots each if they went 12 gate.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't close to optimal either, there could be significantly improved production if there were a few extra drones built at each base once the pool was built. You have 0% chance of beating this as a full 4 man team if none of you leave.
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04-17-2013 , 05:51 PM
You guys are severely underestimating the huge start advantage. The solo player in 2v2 starts with 12 workers while you start with 6, not to mention those extra workers are entirely free because they did not require time minerals or supply. They can start a rax/pool/pylon almost immediately when the game starts while you have to wait until 9-10 supply.

The issue is that as a team your tech is delayed by 1.5 min or so at the start, not to mention you are splitting income between 2 players versus just 1.

As players increase the cheese might be less effective because you have to attack locations that are farther apart but I still think a high apm player could abuse it and win most of the time (or just veto unfavorable maps).
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04-17-2013 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
It would be the smallest number of people needed to have a defensible wall up by the time the lings got there, which depends on both the type of game as well as the map. This of course assumes that the player rushes to lings.
I'm not convinced you could hold the follow up baneling bust even if you do get a wall up. If the nest and appropriate gases are started the instant you see the wall you're going to have so many banelings that you could probably kill every building in the wall and still have plenty of lings to flood into the base.
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04-17-2013 , 06:16 PM
how long does a baneling bust add off if you've committed to a speedling almost-allin? even still, that kills 1 person, by, what now, 6-7 mins? can 3 people really not counter a zerg on speedling/bane and like 2.5 bases?

and no, i didnt watch the day9. not gonna watch a 30 min vid of some allin
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04-17-2013 , 06:25 PM
The relevant part is only the first ~8 minutes. I can 100% guarantee you would not be able to hold it off ever without a wall and I doubt you would hold it off with a wall, although that would certainly be closer. You're talking about 100+ zerglings produced in under 7 minutes, with the first ones having hit before 2 minutes.

In that video one player had lost all workers at 3 minutes and 5 seconds, the estimate of 6-7 minutes to kill 1 person is way off. If you meant for the baneling bust version, that's busting down a team wall (I have no idea what walls you can actually do on 4v4 but I'm assuming most maps would require everyone contributing to the wall), and so it's not just killing off one person, it's killing infrastructure of everyone and flooding all 4 bases with lings. It would be interesting to try but I still think the solo player wins pretty easily if he does it competently.
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04-17-2013 , 07:16 PM
lol @ the day9 game. Obv knowing that **** is coming is a huge advantage. Also all any protoss needed was a mother ship core...

And yeah, you need a wall to hold that off obv, it would have to be forge first, then cannons. Hell even looking at the day9 game the forge finishes which could have been a cannon if they went forge first.

And obv this is still under the premise of playing against zerg and zerg alone.
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04-17-2013 , 07:26 PM
If it's T then instead of speedlings it's hitting 4:30 stim timings with a huge marine ball :/
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04-17-2013 , 07:50 PM
There's no question going into the game thinking about this happening would greatly increase the one players chance of winning.

I still say doing this completely blind massively decreases that chance. Though at what level are we talking about? I would argue bronze through low gold the team with 2 would be a fav cause the one player might not even know they get the free workers. I guess mid gold to mid diamond the 1 player would have a better shot as the other players would likely have bad micro/macro and have no real plan of action.

After that, high diamond to GM, IDK.
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04-17-2013 , 08:06 PM
I don't know why you're talking about it happening blind. We're talking about the exploitability of one member of a two man team (both of whom know exactly what the other is doing) intentionally quitting.
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04-17-2013 , 08:17 PM
I just did for the lulz with my friend, he instantly left the game and the opponent did write this in chat:

Opponent: lol
Opponent: freewin

6 minutes later he was berating me :/
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04-17-2013 , 08:25 PM
bahahaha
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04-17-2013 , 09:50 PM
The only advantage is a tech one as it allows faster gas use and only one set of upgrades required. The other team only has to defend vs the 'all in' and once upgrades are balanced and/or 200 supply is reached and/or the double APM of the other team and/or the more versatile unit composition is significant then the single player is at a large disadvantage.

If the other opponent player leaves in my game I just scout what they are doing and defend/macro. If my ally leaves then I tihnk it is some kind of 8 rax 11 medivac timing I do. It is best when the ally is a protoss imo, as they can chrono workers and only requires one probe on a hotkey to do effective expanding/placing towers in key areas- you can also do a cannon rush to slow them down.
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04-17-2013 , 10:10 PM
Nah the biggest advantage is that your tech comes faster. You can instantly build a gate and core as a P and have much faster Warpgate which hits ridiculously fast.

As a Terran you prolly could go a ridic fast banshee or super fast medivacs(Early medivacs against PP = GG).

As a Zerg you can instapool.


Ohh this discussion reminds me that I played with a friend 2on2 on the KR-Server and we were matched against Fruitdealer. His ally got disconnected and we played 2 vs 1. Trough a rush we managed to take the other guy out anyways ,but Fruitdealer kept playing and just dropped everywhere with imbaspeedvacs. Made me realize how good Koreans really are.
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04-17-2013 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I don't know why you're talking about it happening blind. We're talking about the exploitability of one member of a two man team (both of whom know exactly what the other is doing) intentionally quitting.
It didn't start that way, or at least I didn't think it started that way. I'm saying, and have been fwiw, that if you go into a game and the thought before the game is you will be playing 2v2 the whole game and your teammate quits early on you are less likely to put a win together than if you know your teammate is going to quit out.

And blind is referring to getting blindsided if your teammate leaves the game without your prior knowledge. I have no idea how that could be mistook. Unless you're thinking about something else. Idk.
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04-18-2013 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
Nah the biggest advantage is that your tech comes faster. You can instantly build a gate and core as a P and have much faster Warpgate which hits ridiculously fast.

As a Terran you prolly could go a ridic fast banshee or super fast medivacs(Early medivacs against PP = GG).

As a Zerg you can instapool.


Ohh this discussion reminds me that I played with a friend 2on2 on the KR-Server and we were matched against Fruitdealer. His ally got disconnected and we played 2 vs 1. Trough a rush we managed to take the other guy out anyways ,but Fruitdealer kept playing and just dropped everywhere with imbaspeedvacs. Made me realize how good Koreans really are.
He never passed out from all the alcohol he had been drinking?
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04-18-2013 , 01:16 AM
i just got promoted to masters playing 3v3 randoms. lol blizzard mmr system.
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04-18-2013 , 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
Nah the biggest advantage is that your tech comes faster. You can instantly build a gate and core as a P and have much faster Warpgate which hits ridiculously fast.

As a Terran you prolly could go a ridic fast banshee or super fast medivacs(Early medivacs against PP = GG).

As a Zerg you can instapool.


Ohh this discussion reminds me that I played with a friend 2on2 on the KR-Server and we were matched against Fruitdealer. His ally got disconnected and we played 2 vs 1. Trough a rush we managed to take the other guy out anyways ,but Fruitdealer kept playing and just dropped everywhere with imbaspeedvacs. Made me realize how good Koreans really are.
you have the replay? if so please post it
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04-18-2013 , 10:31 AM
Nope was a couple months ago in the beta of HOTS where they enabled globalplay if I remember right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
He never passed out from all the alcohol he had been drinking?
didnt get that but after some googling I guess he was borderline alcholic?
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04-18-2013 , 03:21 PM
Khaldor with a pretty handy tip for dealing with widow mines ZvT:



Cliffs: changelings will, *before they morph*, set off mines. So, if you see mines, you need to pull your overseer back so that it doesn't see the mines (if you have vision of the mines the changeling will morph to a marine), then walk the changelings into the mines while they're still in their goopy state.
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04-18-2013 , 06:20 PM
changelings also blow up banes in ZvZ
put an overseer right over a bane and the bane will blow up the changeling
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04-18-2013 , 06:38 PM
Like, baneling landmines, or normal banes? Wouldn't the changeling morph when it sees a baneling?
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04-18-2013 , 07:07 PM
not if the ai was set for the baneling to explode faster. obv not a landmine cause they dont auto detonate.

does fruitdealer even still play lol? if he still has any good mechanics and switched to t maybe he will make an appearance now and then?
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04-18-2013 , 09:00 PM
I`ve watched demuslims stream for the last couple days and I literally didn`t see any matchup but TvT wtf. Is the americanladder full of terrans?
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04-18-2013 , 09:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz4e09wEAnk


DeMuslim: Do you come up on teamliquid(Refering to her stream)
Tara: Ya
DeMuslim: Ohhh you do?
Tara: Yeah just not as a featured stream, because I suck
Demuslim: *laughs* cuz you suck huh? hehehe
Tara: yeah *laughs* not that way if I sucked that way I would be featured.
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