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04-16-2013 , 12:17 PM
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btw re: the 2v2/3v3 thing

I'm pretty sure if you were a solid, high apm player, you could get to masters by queueing with friends, having them leave, and then using 1 race + extra income to all in and win a large % of the time
Im pretty sure I could have 95% winrate when my ally would leave when the game starts. You can just do ridic **** that hits so fast pretty op. Like ally leaves, you go something ridic like the fastest possible Gate and then just 8 gate allin them. No way they can hold that.
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04-16-2013 , 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NiSash1337
Im pretty sure I could have 95% winrate when my ally would leave when the game starts. You can just do ridic **** that hits so fast pretty op. Like ally leaves, you go something ridic like the fastest possible Gate and then just 8 gate allin them. No way they can hold that.
Good players notice your partner leaving and quickly kill off his nexus/cc/hatch.
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04-16-2013 , 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NiSash1337
Im pretty sure I could have 95% winrate when my ally would leave when the game starts. You can just do ridic **** that hits so fast pretty op. Like ally leaves, you go something ridic like the fastest possible Gate and then just 8 gate allin them. No way they can hold that.
Or the other team dumps to one player? lol, obv a bunch of ways to beat this.
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04-16-2013 , 04:36 PM
Can't dump, but you can leave as well.
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04-16-2013 , 04:37 PM
if your partner leaves at the start, you will have your first gateways/rax way before they do and just attack with about 5-6 units. usually neither play will have more than 2-3 and you have 3-4 buildings rallying while they have 1-2 and their partner's units will usually be separated
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04-16-2013 , 05:36 PM
on a pretty bad losing streak decide to give zerg a go. matchup v protoss, play dreadful, still win. confirmed imba race
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04-16-2013 , 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperSnort
on a pretty bad losing streak decide to give zerg a go. matchup v protoss, play dreadful, still win. confirmed imba race
what makes you think the other person didn't play terribly as well?
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04-16-2013 , 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Go Get It
Or the other team dumps to one player? lol, obv a bunch of ways to beat this.
Yeah leaving of one player is the only way to beat it, else you pretty much can`t beat it.
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04-16-2013 , 10:53 PM
Cannon rush, 6 pool, proxy rax, snap kill the guy who left... sure not many ways at all......
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04-17-2013 , 02:07 AM
How do you cannon rush someone who has lings out before you can start a cannon?
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04-17-2013 , 03:42 AM
Just streamed some Terran games where I went 8-8-8 every single time, went 6-4 against plats, lol terran

eta: two of the games I lost were to zergs who went 11 pool and 12 pool
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04-17-2013 , 05:21 AM
OH TO BE JAEDONG...

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=408192

When she was asked how to describe this feeling even further, she said:

"My love for Jaedong is like this: when I think of him practicing for 14 hours a day, my heart hurts and I want to massage his shoulders and make hot soups for him."
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04-17-2013 , 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by goofyballer
How do you cannon rush someone who has lings out before you can start a cannon?
Are we a lock to be playing a zerg? And cannon the person who left...
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04-17-2013 , 11:27 AM
Destroying one of your opponent's bases immediately is also a highly effective strategy in 2v2s where no one leaves the game.
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04-17-2013 , 11:38 AM
I think my proudest moment in Starcraft was when I won a macro game controlling both a Zerg and Protoss vs two people when my partner left.

Either that or when I got goofy riled up by dropping some manner mules.
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04-17-2013 , 12:30 PM
playing WCS euro qualifier cause why not. got deathangel 2nd round...
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04-17-2013 , 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Go Get It
Cannon rush, 6 pool, proxy rax, snap kill the guy who left... sure not many ways at all......

If I`m PP. I go Pylon at 5 and then a gate at like 7. Also always wall lowground against a PZ team and be prepared to go forge else you lose.

There is no way you can win against a good player when one of you doesnt leave.

If you want we can test it.
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04-17-2013 , 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NiSash1337
If I`m PP. I go Pylon at 5 and then a gate at like 7. Also always wall lowground against a PZ team and be prepared to go forge else you lose.

There is no way you can win against a good player when one of you doesnt leave.

If you want we can test it.
The whole premise of this is misguided, but not way off base. Assuming one goes into a 2v2 under the thinking that the game will be played out fully 2v2 is a totally different thing than knowing you're going to have to control two bases at the start. So testing, imo, is already flawed if both sides know what is going to happen.

Beyond that, obv if IHA and I go in against MVP/player who leaves damn right we're going to get our asses kicked almost 100% of the time. So assuming equal skill levels and no preconceived notion that it's going to be a 2v1 I still argue that 2 players who have any ability to quickly think are a fav. Especially against any non zerg.

I mean IHA and I would prolly just probe rush and win that way. It works more than one might think too.
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04-17-2013 , 04:10 PM
^ this post makes very little sense to me.

How would a probe rush work? The remaining player controls both races, right? So he can continue making workers for both races, and then your workers show up and are outnumbered...

I also don't understand your thing about testing being flawed if both sides know what's going to happen. Since a team of players that goes into a 2v2 and has one player quit already knows that's their strat, you (the team that stays) would have an advantage knowing in advance that one of your opponents will quit, and NiSash is saying that even with that advantage, you would still lose. And I think he's right.
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04-17-2013 , 04:20 PM
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How would a probe rush work? The remaining player controls both races, right? So he can continue making workers for both races, and then your workers show up and are outnumbered...
Yes. I`d prolly could have a gate in time and then build a zealot or when I play Z I will def have lings out. But guess that was a joke anyways.

I could just do the following things(My ally and I usually play PP):

Instagate:

Build Pylon 2x Probe then Gate and go into an 8 gate with a ridiculously early Warpgate.
Go a 10 gate and scout, if I scout cheese I just build a forge and I`m ahead(Most maps are easy to walloff if you build together on the lowground). I will build pylons in one base and will start warping in from 8 gates Zealots(With dt follow up)

Last edited by NiSash1337; 04-17-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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04-17-2013 , 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by goofyballer
^ this post makes very little sense to me.

How would a probe rush work? The remaining player controls both races, right? So he can continue making workers for both races, and then your workers show up and are outnumbered...

I also don't understand your thing about testing being flawed if both sides know what's going to happen. Since a team of players that goes into a 2v2 and has one player quit already knows that's their strat, you (the team that stays) would have an advantage knowing in advance that one of your opponents will quit, and NiSash is saying that even with that advantage, you would still lose. And I think he's right.
Probe rush is a somewhat inside joke. IHA and I used to 3v3 and worker rush 100% of the time, and it worked a lot...

If you play a zvz, and you know your opponent is going straight for mutas, are you not at an advantage? It's clear having complete information in a game of incomplete information throws off something like a test in this case. Knowing at the start of the game you are going to have to control an extra set of workers is a huge advantage rather than having that thrown on you 5 sec into a game blindly... I don't know how that point could be more clear. Also it's clearly correct. Whether one would win or lose from that point is obv open to debate.
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04-17-2013 , 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Go Get It
Knowing at the start of the game you are going to have to control an extra set of workers is a huge advantage rather than having that thrown on you 5 sec into a game blindly... I don't know how that point could be more clear. Also it's clearly correct.
Well, yeah. And I believe people who exploit this go into games with the explicit strategy of one of them quitting so the other can win by themselves, so the remaining player does know going in what's going down.

Like, watch this:



Skip to 1:35. 4v4 where 3 players quit at the start. The guy who's left starts his pool at 0:24 and by 1:10 has two macro hatches building. 6 zerglings pop at 1:55. Ling speed starts at 2:00.

So what, exactly, is your build to beat this?
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04-17-2013 , 05:17 PM
I mean if we're talking GTO solutions, it's probably to have 3 people on your team quit as well and counter the build (huge wall+zealot heavy gateway attack) with your own OP rush.

In practice, 3v3 and 4v4 (even 2v2 to some extent) are broken and these strategies would, in my opinion, be considered cheating for all intents and purposes in an actual tournament. I'm not sure if four people working together could counter that (it would heavily depend on the map, and we all know 2v2+ maps are terrible).
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04-17-2013 , 05:29 PM
I don't understand how you could possibly think the 2 player team beats the 1 player team in this scenario. At the most basic level the team who had the player leave has the same level of income but only requires half of the tech of the other team, so has an inherent advantage. The fact that the tech can be started so much earlier only exacerbates the advantage. The extra micro/macro required is only an issue once you max out pop on the first race, but if you haven't won by that point you've done something pretty badly wrong.
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04-17-2013 , 05:40 PM
arent you getting diminishing returns with the more people that leave related to total? ie 1v2 should win often, 1v3 could win within x minutes, but 1v4 should basically never win?

1v4 they can hard counter you so easily, esp if they get almost all walls up before your attack hits (which should be easy)

somehow thats only happened to me once in game, altho ive prob only played 100-150 2v2 games, we got 5 or 6 raxed and died and my partner tries to blame me when he had 1 stalker and zero forges on the map
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