Starcraft 2 (GAME IS NOW FREE!) - Page 471 - Video Games

incontrol is also a champion powerlifter fwiw. he used to be a pro player but was awful and just didnt have it in him to compete with the big boys. now he's a really good caster/personality.

he was awful as a caster when he first started with NASL, but now that he's dedicated to primarily casting/commentating he's become one of the best ones. he just needs to stop being a homer/biased during casts.

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06-27-2012 , 08:32 PM

#11752

IHeartAsians

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,186

yea, he is pretty much is the opposite of a nerd

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06-28-2012 , 02:49 AM

#11753

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

entombed valley

most balanced zvp map?

or most balanced zvp map ever?

perhaps there's a reason every single protoss ever picks it in a tournament situation and every single zerg ever cheeses on it?

nah just gr8 map design.

altho in bizz's defense the new map this season is rpetty good.

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06-28-2012 , 03:25 AM

#11754

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

So I'm pretty sure that on the ramp is an extremely ******ed place for my Protoss friend here to leave his army chilling, yeah?

When all was said and done, my force of 26 marines/12 marauders (w/ combat shield, +1, concussive, stim) took out...
- his initial force of 5 zealots/18 stalkers/2 sentries/2 immortals (he also had +1)
- reinforcements of 7 stalkers
- second reinforcement force of 6 stalkers
- final reinforcement force of 2 stalkers

with a grand total of 16 marines and 1 marauder lost.

Bio army + medivacs OP vs gateway units?

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06-28-2012 , 03:46 AM

#11755

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Engaging in the choke is bad for him, but in this screenshot is a pretty big TvP lesson:

Terran bio units are far superior to Protoss gateway units. Here we have 2 immortals, but they are likely not enough to make up for the bad concave and the lack of sentries using forcefields. Sentries are essential to many Protoss engagements.

Also your army just looks bigger/better. You have a lot of marauders AND medivacs.

The real truth is you prob just have more stuff.

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06-28-2012 , 04:12 AM

#11756

aK13

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 9,190

Yeah it looks like you have more supply there and your concave is vastly superior. You have like 20 units shooting vs. his 10. He also has a really bad composition vs. your composition. Stalkers melt pretty fast without zealot/sentry support.

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06-28-2012 , 05:37 AM

#11757

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Haha, next game went almost exactly the same way.

On the red team:

26 marines, 14 marauders, 4 medivacs.

On the blue team:

8 zealots, 22 stalkers, 3 immortals.

The result:

That did not go well for him at all.

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06-28-2012 , 06:06 AM

#11758

Morrek

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,592

first glance looks like he has wayyyyyy too many stalkers. he needs enough to counter drops, so 0-4 or so. zealots are sooo much better pvt. also he needs some aoe vs medivacs. would be very surprised if that composition ever won vs any reasonable terran composition pretty much

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06-28-2012 , 07:32 AM

#11759

IHeartAsians

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Party Up Guys

No u.

woooooooow, the troll is strong with this one.

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06-28-2012 , 08:30 AM

#11760

cwar

Free Hugz

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 11,127

Yeah PvT, toss engagement micro/positioning is significantly harder than Terran IMO. Difficult micro and positioning or you lose all your stuff. Although anyone who makes immo/stalker with no sentries deserves to lose.

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06-28-2012 , 11:53 AM

#11761

nullspace

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,858

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwar

Yeah PvT, toss engagement micro/positioning is significantly harder than Terran IMO. Difficult micro and positioning or you lose all your stuff. Although anyone who makes immo/stalker with no sentries deserves to lose.

Until the lategame, then it becomes harder for Terran.

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06-28-2012 , 11:59 AM

#11762

Gospy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,788

Meh, late game terran prob has more to do with balancing unit comp than positioning it.

The entire time I am playing PvT I am just waiting for the T player to get out of position even if I have a superior army.

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06-28-2012 , 02:16 PM

#11763

Willd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 16,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gospy

Umm, if as a protoss you wait until your opponent is out of position, as opposed to making sure you're always in a perfect position, doesn't that mean positioning for terran is just as, if not more, important than for protoss?

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06-28-2012 , 03:48 PM

#11764

orange

Guest

Posts: n/a

lol...noob protoss players always make waayyyyy too many stalkers in their composition (against terran). mass stalkers are fine in some builds (2 base colo + stalkers is fine) or like a blink stalker/obs build...but more zealots = better in that matchup.

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06-28-2012 , 04:36 PM

#11765

Gospy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,788

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willd

Position is certainly a function of the location/status of your enemy's units as well as your own. So those could easily be seen as the same or at the very least highly correlated. (Speaking purely of engagements)

All I meant was if I a move on 1-2 bases, I'm probably losing even if I have a slightly bigger army. And even if I try to micro it's going to take some pretty good ffs.

Which kind of doesn't matter for late game I guess, so nevermind. I mean I guess it does take quite a bit of micro to spread units to dodge storms.

Last edited by Gospy; 06-28-2012 at 04:42 PM.

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06-28-2012 , 04:46 PM

#11766

Willd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 16,237

I'm zerg so I don't speak from experience but late game PvZ seems like it should involve some of the most micro intensive battles of any matchup by both sides.

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06-28-2012 , 05:37 PM

#11767

Gospy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,788

Zerg has no micro.

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06-28-2012 , 05:42 PM

#11768

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willd

I'm zerg so I don't speak from experience but late game PvZ seems like it should involve some of the most micro intensive battles of any matchup by both sides.

It does. People don't give Stephano and them the credit they deserve for macroing, injecting, looking for drops AND controlling a BL/infestor/corruptor/spine crawler/ling/roach army. It's very difficult, especially when the meat of your army is static defense. You simply cannot let the stalkers blink under you BLs. You miss the fungal to prevent that, and it can be GG.

Then when a mothership comes into play? Oh boy.

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06-28-2012 , 05:50 PM

#11769

Gospy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,788

~9/10 ladder matches I play vs Zerg involve the zerg racing to 70 drones and 180 supply at like 11-12 min then a moving me.

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06-28-2012 , 06:00 PM

#11770

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

tosses have been meta gaming the **** out of that build on ladder. i barely even do it anymore.

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06-28-2012 , 06:03 PM

#11771

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

One thing I'm curious about in games I watch (esp when Karak streams): Zergs always seem to expand reallllly fast, taking a 2nd like instantly and a pretty quick third. How do those types of builds respond to early pushes?

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06-28-2012 , 06:06 PM

#11772

Gospy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,788

They are generally pretty safe.

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06-28-2012 , 06:13 PM

#11773

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

hatch firsting (taking a "2nd" or natural expansion very quickly) is standard in msot match-ups.

a general rule which almost always applies is this: zerg must always be 1 base ahead of his opponent (not counting mirrors) to be at least even in the game. there are some exceptions, of course, but if you are on even bases with a T or P opponent (especially P) as zerg, you're probably in trouble.

that said, i take very greedy thirds in zvt

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06-28-2012 , 06:16 PM

#11774

Xaston

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,529

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Karak can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure with several early pushes you actually need to go hatch first in order to actually be able to hold. Not enough production if you go pool first.

Hatch first ask questions later. Unless I'm up against protoss, then I'm 8 pooling.

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06-28-2012 , 06:29 PM

#11775

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

I mean I can't remember the last time I didn't go hatch first vs. a T (unless he eng blocks me, which is an entirely different issue), so I dunno. There's no reason not to hatch first vs. a T.

The only time I ever go hatch first vs. P is by accident... I forget to check the race and think I'm in a ZvZ or ZvT or something. If you routinely hatch first vs. P, you're gonna have a bad time.

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