In my limited experience, the trick is waiting for that first batch of mutas. If they make more, just cannon up and go kill them with a colossus army. (Just a couple) If they don't, just deflect deflect deflect and macro up. With upgrade buffs it's too easy to get 1/1 at the minimum and maybe even 2/0 or 2/1.

Of course my standard involves a decently quick robo vs zerg.

Roach into a few mutas for harassment into w/e else >>> Roach into mass muta imo.

God I am raging. Do you guys think it is gimmicky and/or an exploitation of mechanics to use scvs to attack and then hold position them? Or am I missing something? I am fine with scvs being used in battle (well, kinda, mules OP), but to surround my zealots and then make them spaz out is cheap imo.

What's stopping you from using hold position on your zealots to just rape the SCVs?

Terran OP though, no doubt about that.

stop whining
put your zealots on hold position too
??????????
profit

when i played (it's been a month i guess lol), i was always amazed at how many opponents in zvz would lose in sure win spots because i am stop key spamming into a move back into stop key drone micro and they dont put their lings on hold position and lose like 10 lings to 1 queen or something stupid.

what is this hold position you all speak of

you run into a mineral line with lings, then you click H so your lings just stay in the mineral line and dont change focus and attack a queen or a spine crawler or something

Just like you do A (attack) move, there is also H (Hold) and S (Stop) -- and M (move) but nobody uses that.

When you aren't doing anything with your units, sometimes you may want to put them on Hold position.

It's especially important as Protoss vs Zerg when you're blocking your ramp with a zealot.

If you just move a Zealot to the opening in your ramp and a zergling pokes up, the Zealot will attack it and go after it.

If, instead, you put your Zealot on Hold position, the zealot will only attack the zergling if the zergling gets into range of the zealot, but the zealot won't go after it.

It's also important for all races if you are just sitting in your base and your opponent is poking in. If you are just standing there, he might bait out some of your units causing them to attack on their own.

If you have your army on Hold, then they can poke in but your units won't auto attack.

If your mineral line is getting attacked by zerglings and you put your workers on Hold, it screws up the AI of the zerglings and (afaik) they will stop attacking.

Also, Pro-Tip: If you have a zealot blocking your ramp and want to move your probes, click on a mineral patch at another base and the probe will ignore unit collision and walk through the zealot. Otherwise, your probe will get stuck and not be able to get through. Took me until about a couple weeks ago to figure that out.

on the latest state of the game the 2hr mark they talk about a leenock-mvp 5 game series that was supposedly very good. where can i find these vods?

you can hold shift and do it all at once (shift->navigate lings to minerals->H->unshift)

www.gomtv.net

You need to buy the season ticket ($10) to see past the first game though.

you just blew my mind

k so i have a buttton of work to do this weekend, but my mind seriously needs a rest from all this garbage im doing

so i may play a couple hours of sc2 tonight.

relevant points:
-im tired
-my mind is tired
-i havent played in a MONTH

so if anyone wants a chance to beat the mighty karaker, now's your time. taking all comers.

Hold position isn't some magical command that just randomly messes up the AI or something.

There is a priority order for what a unit will attack. It's something like:
- Units/buildings that can attack the unit, including spellcasters and workers in attack mode
- Units/buildings that can attack, but cannot attack the unit
- Workers not in attack mode
- Other buildings

I'm not sure where medivacs go, but I think it's either with the 2nd or between the 2nd/3rd.

One situation where people use the hold position with workers trick is when they have a ranged unit (spine/queen/stalker) and lings get into their mineral line. If you surround the spine with drones and have them hold position, what happens is the spine is higher priority to the lings than the drones are, so they try to attack the spine, but the workers block them. Holding position with the lings will cause them to stand in place and attack whatever is in range of them (drones), so that's how one would counter that. Hitting H on a bunch of workers with nothing else in range will not prevent lings from killing them.

A lot of people (including the GSL casters) don't actually understand this mechanic properly. You hear them say stuff like "he needs to single target the SCVs blocking the marine" or something. Why would you tell 6 lings to all attack 1 SCV when only 1-2 of them can actually hit it? Instead, the zerg player should let his lings attempt to attack the marine, therefore moving into range of the blocking SCVs and hit H. If the terran player moves the SCVs, then hitting S on the lings will allow them to continue as normal. Repeat if necessary.

I have no idea why Blizzard hasn't fixed this yet. This was a problem in SC1 with bunkers behind building walls, and they fixed the AI in SC2 to attack the wall if there is no possible route to the attack units behind it. But for some reason, they overlooked the possibility of units blocking the path as well.

forever alone? fine. skyrim it is. i need to get to bed soon anyways.

F U ALLLLL

Brag:

sick brag, congrats!


in other news, i was losing too many games in a row so blizzard served me up a terran who opened with the oh-so-powerful make 5 supply depots before doing anything else build.

A football coach that plays starcraft. Needle you must be the coolest teacher ever.

BTW Needle I miss skyping with you dudes and donking around in sc2

WTB on shipurstack.

u know who just logged on a couple days ago stunna? ***** charliehorse after 53 weeks.

In my 3 games today on TalDarim, all 3 opponents have tried to put an expand behind the mineral patches. Its hilarious

Lol.

ead

i have not won a meaningful ZvZ 3 bases and beyond where i did not lose to mutas

(wondering if corruptors are the appropriate response to mutas if you have a spire, bc mutas are so strong)

nobody builds anything more than 20 lings or roaches

i am about to just roach timing my way to ZvZ godliness

Did he show you who was boss like old times?