omg

this is the greatest/funniest win I have ever had



fastforward to 9 minutes for the epic surprise maneuver. preferably viewing from blue terrans POV.

the thing is, you can't stop a well executed cannon rush w/o getting way behind when you hatch first. nydus is absurdly easy to stop and a baneling bust slightly less so but still not that hard due to FF. there's a reason why you never see zergs hatching first vs protoss or baneling busting vs FFE in pro matches. even doing it on a non FFE map is risky because toss can chronoboost stalkers since you won't have ling speed. pretty much forces you into 2 spines blindly which cuts into the economy lead you were aiming for by hatching first. risk>>>reward so way not worth it.

I feel like unless you lose/cancel your hatch you aren't getting far behind at all even if you pull almost all ur drones, i doubt there is anyway to prove it. Protoss gets delayed very badly by doing these shenanigans, if you clean that up where he invested a decent amount i mean you can drone till at least the 10 min mark. Thats a lot of drones drop and evo and a maybe a roach warren at like 7 min just to be safe and he can't do anything. The other case where he builds stalkers, lets say he does the 3 stalker rush which is the fastest you can have 3 stalker, pretty sure no one does this build vs zerg but whatever, they pop out the gateways right at 5 min so at ur base around like 5:30. You have scouted the stalker before zealot so you should be building a spine or 2 just to be safe anyways and the toss didn't use his chronos on probes which is a big deal, and easily justifies the 2 spines plus they are nice to have anyways. Other more likely scenario is what i like to do a lot vs someone who is not getting speed is the zealot and stalker pressure, then i build a sentry and expand behind it. Although since it is essentially just a 1 gate expand i die to counters way to often when they overmake lings so i need to refine it a little. Yeah nydus and baneling bust are both pretty easy to stop just busting his balls some more.

you're underestimating how hard/impossible it is to stop a good cannon rush. i mean if it were so easy and it gave you a reasonable eco lead, why don't any pros ever hatch first ZvP? and i'm assuming since you flipped out that you lost to the cannon rush.

I guess I am underestimating the cannons, the only time I cannon is on taldarim if I scout them first and they hatch first. But zergs know better than hatch first on that map. So you always speedling expand vs toss? Even on big 4 player maps like antiga? Ya I lost I handled it very poorly cause I haven't played 1v1 with Zerg lately and he placed the pylons well

you don't have to speedling expand on FFE maps. in fact, i'd even say its probably bad to do so.

you're investing 100/100 in an upgrade that basically useless to you in the early game, when you could delay it until you need it, and have a much better economy because of this

i've been doing a gasless 3 base off of a 15 pool on FFE maps for awhile now. I take 2 gasses at 32-35 supply, and just respond to what the protoss is doing from there. IF (and sometimes its a big if) I can find out what they're up to around the 7:30 mark, I feel confident in my ability to properly counter and take a big lead going into the midgame.

He didn't one-base the entire game lol. I ended up crushing him with Ultra/Ling on 4 bases, and he just decided to be an ******* and drag the game out. It only took me so long because he did kind of a half-ass base trade that took out my two main mining bases, so I took the time to rebuild my econ before the BLs. I mean, I did keep trying to bust the ramp, but I didn't go nuts with it saccing units and whatnot. I was trying to see if I could make him use all his energy (since he was throwing a ton of ITs per bust attempt) so I could actually get up there eventually, but it didn't really work.

FWIW, cannoning a hatch first is pretty standard.

Some protoss players go so far as to say that if you 13 forge 17 nexus against hatch first you are behind.

So we are just auto behind if we dont build cannons? That seems ridiculous, i mean thats the most economic build we have(thats safe vs zerg) I mean i watch a ton of starcraft (gsl, streams(including yours lol, etc) and i can't remember the last time i saw someone cannon a zerg( huk used to do it all the ****ing time but he never does it anymore.) And Im not talking about building a pylon to get him to pull drones and canceling, like actually committing to it. Maybe its due to the fact that not a ton of zergs are going hatch first vs toss, but i feel like i still see it quite a bit

nah we could go nexus first if he hatchs first afaik

Scout hatch first > go Nexus first.

Brag:

First win PvZ

Variance:

Opponent left 3base vs 3base same supply but he had 3,5k minerals in the bank Idragg lol

Haha no worries. Good to hear it wasn't serious. My computer screwed up first game so we can call it even for now.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 (agree with the second statement wholly... if i pull off a hatch first vs. an FFEing brotoss i feel like im in an amazing spot cause my economy will be untouched for at least 7 minutes and is about to explode exponentially)

And you never used to believe me when I said that...

Karak is better than you, bro

Maybe he is now, who knows.

moooo
I doubt it~

For you Brotoss who like to cheese, I have a good one for you.

Before you FFE, you hide a probe somewhere near the 3rd of zergs base. Get your Nexus up, get probes and econ up. While you do that, use your hidden probe to make a pylon then just warp in pure zealots. Save up to around 6-8 and send them in and snipe 3rd hatchery.

Easy game, the zergs will never see it coming

[ ] playing good zergs

I think it's better to just chrono them out of the gateways. Hits faster.

And every single zerg I play scouts literally everywhere. I have to find really creative spots to hide my probe. It's annoying.

yeah. playing games against Zefa has taught me that I have to literally look in every remote part of every single map every single game. I consider it a victory if I'm able to find even 1 of his hidden probes

http://www.twitch.tv/gospysc2/b/294511143

I updated xsplit and it reset all my settings so I had to reconfigure them. In doing so I get 1-1-1'ed obv, but I hold it! On close pos shattered!

im watching.

you don't seem to have a chat tho

I just streamed the one game to see how it would look, I have some stuff to do I might play some more later.