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08-22-2011 , 04:12 PM
^ ******s gonna ******

It's annoying how the vast majority of whiners in SC2 are ******ed. Nobody respects legitimate complaints. Them damn ******s have ruined it all.
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08-22-2011 , 04:16 PM
i always get pissed when i lose to bling busts. generally because it was obvious it was coming and i just didn't react to it.

oh look, there are 30 lings outside my ramp. I'm sure they will just sit there until i am ready to come out.
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08-22-2011 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
oh it's one of those builds you can scout and still die

see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfWfbdf0MYY
What scouting? As far as I saw, Time didn't see anything aside from the bunker. You cast well and have a good voice though, no home o

Last edited by Thamel18; 08-22-2011 at 04:40 PM.
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08-22-2011 , 04:35 PM
tyty, but as time said in the cast, when he sees that opening he knows exactly what's coming. Toss and Zerg have to scout without actually seeing the buildings much of time. It ain't as easy as C->click-> oh hey tech :-).
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08-22-2011 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
oh it's one of those builds you can scout and still die

see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfWfbdf0MYY
i see a lot of stuff he could do better in that game. not saying i could do them obv but he said himself his engagement was bad. he also just kept all his units at his natural which imo is a huge leak a lot of players have. if there's a good reason he can't put a pylon somewhere out on the map w/ the scout probe to warp in units to cut off reinforcements/set up a flank i'd love to hear it.
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08-22-2011 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thamel18
What scouting? As far as I saw, Time didn't see anything aside from the bunker. You cast well and have a good voice though, no homeo
When a Terran opens with banshees you know its 1-1-1. You prepare, but still lose if they have decent control. Its also next to impossible to scout whether he stopped after 1 or 2 banshees or kept making them. If he keeps pumping them you need stalkers, if he stops and goes raven...stalkers are toast.
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08-22-2011 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
On August 23 2011 05:27 TT1 wrote:
why does mlg have the worst tournament format in the history of esports?
given his history of ******edness getting this completely wrong doesn't surprise me
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08-22-2011 , 04:53 PM
tt1 is an idiot and is quickly falling out of favor with everyone in the sc2 community imo
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08-22-2011 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah-blah-blah
i see a lot of stuff he could do better in that game. not saying i could do them obv but he said himself his engagement was bad. he also just kept all his units at his natural which imo is a huge leak a lot of players have. if there's a good reason he can't put a pylon somewhere out on the map w/ the scout probe to warp in units to cut off reinforcements/set up a flank i'd love to hear it.
Even with perfect micro it wouldnt have mattered. MK had 3 banshees and 12 + marines and 2 tanks left over, with more on the way. The mix of units that he has makes it so tough to stop. Your immortals have no range so they are crushed by marines and banshees before they can take out the tanks....and with the tanks crushing your stalkers you can take out the marines or banshees.

As for cutting of reinforcements, it sounds all fine but in reality when you cant come close to stopping the initial attack it really doesnt matter. Not to mention the micro required by the protoss to even have a fighting chance in the main battle means you cant exactly micro against the reinforcements.
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08-22-2011 , 05:39 PM
I feel like P should get the Amulet back BUT have temps start with 70 energy instead of 75. Thoughts?
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08-22-2011 , 05:43 PM
fairly sure that the time taken for terran to kill everything following blanket emp's is less than the time taken to warp in templars and wait for five energy to storm

edit - as an aside is jinro in korea right now? he's been streaming really weird times this past week if he is
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08-22-2011 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thac
I feel like P should get the Amulet back BUT have temps start with 70 energy instead of 75. Thoughts?
i dont think that would matter here
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08-22-2011 , 05:57 PM
It was unrelated Karak, I was just thinking about it while I was on the road today.
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08-22-2011 , 06:14 PM
Maybe I'm taking Time's hindsight a little too seriously and taking away from his judgment. After all, not much else makes sense when you know your opponent has made 5+ rines and nothing else, at least when playing against toss (Marine tank banshee is the only thing that really makes sense, though marine/tank/marauder would be interesting.). Testbug is also a pretty tough map to expo against cloaked banshees, since there is a pretty small area to fire from behind your natural's mineral line, and thus an easy getaway for the banshees. I can't imagine beating banshees except with a few phoenix, which would also help against the tanks. It just seems like the tech options get pwnt one way or another. Colossi lose to the banshees and good aim by tanks, while immos lose to rines/banshee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
tyty, but as time said in the cast, when he sees that opening he knows exactly what's coming. Toss and Zerg have to scout without actually seeing the buildings much of time. It ain't as easy as C->click-> oh hey tech :-).
Well, obviously Time's observer was late due to expo right? Also, zerg have overlords. It's okay though, I understand that I was just scratching the surface of scouting and being sort of a troll I guess. I dislike the bunker by the terran player though, esp if he scouted the expo.
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08-22-2011 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherhead03
Even with perfect micro it wouldnt have mattered. MK had 3 banshees and 12 + marines and 2 tanks left over, with more on the way. The mix of units that he has makes it so tough to stop. Your immortals have no range so they are crushed by marines and banshees before they can take out the tanks....and with the tanks crushing your stalkers you can take out the marines or banshees.

As for cutting of reinforcements, it sounds all fine but in reality when you cant come close to stopping the initial attack it really doesnt matter. Not to mention the micro required by the protoss to even have a fighting chance in the main battle means you cant exactly micro against the reinforcements.
ok i actually downloaded the replay so i could look at everything and imo time holds there but he made a few key mistakes.

1. he lost 2 sentries to banshees, one being completely avoidable.

2. he leaves 1 stalker and 2 full energy sentries in his main for the big fight.

3. didn't pop guardian shield or lay FF for the actual fight. i think he could have trapped all the marines w/ 2 FF at 10:51.

one random thought i had was that he doesn't actually need 3 immortals. they're bad vs marines and banshees so would it be viable to get 2 immortals and a warp prism to drop the immortals behind the tanks so its easier to target fire them? 2 immortals can take out 3 tanks no problem right?
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08-22-2011 , 06:18 PM
just to be clear i'm not saying it would be easy. its definitely a lot harder to defend that attack than it is to execute it but thats just how the game works.
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08-22-2011 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
it's counterable. the problem for protoss is their counters to it, when/if scouted by terran, can be re-countered quite easily by the terran. terran has insane flexibility unlike any other race (as confirmed by the SC2 lead designer himself) and can switch from one build to an entirely different one in an instant and then just rape the toss. this is what makes terran feel "OP" to some people because there is just such a wide variety of stuff they can do or come with. some really creative terran builds are just insane. i honestly think zerg can react to terran a lot better than protoss can tho due to the cost of protoss tech and zerg's ability to wait til the last second to choose which units to make. obviously it's still hard for zerg, but not as hard. mid-game zerg is pretty damn resilient.

nexus first is prob the best way to counter it, but as soon as that is scouted the T can throw down a bunch of rax and go win or can instantly double expo or something.

same with 1 gate expo. im just going with a lot of what ive read about it, so excuse me if im wrong about anything.

another issue is it's hard to punish terran for the time it takes him to tech up because terran simply can't be cheesed if they place and repair bunkers correctly.
This is a really good post (especially the bold part). I don't think it's specific to one particular build, as a lot of Protoss "counters" get easily re-countered (with the immortal being a prime example).
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08-22-2011 , 06:34 PM
beat: pulled an anypro today and blocked my nexus in a FFE with a pylon fml.
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08-22-2011 , 06:45 PM
The problem is terran can have 125% of the max mineral income of the other two races off of one base with MULEs, has the marine which is some by stroke of stupidity a mineral-only base unit that protoss cannot counter without investing heavily into tech, and can then dump every bit of gas they mine into sick tech units which synergize stupidly well with marines. To add to that, protoss has to put a lot of gas into a crappy AA unit to stop banshees, while at the same time marines and siege tanks wreck the **** out of stalkers (and banshees are very close to cost effective against them as it is).

I commend blizzard on the awesome game they made and acknowledge the immense difficulties of balancing all these different units but I can't help but feel like it's a bit broken.

And yes I still enjoy discussing these things, despite not really playing any more.
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08-22-2011 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah-blah-blah
ok i actually downloaded the replay so i could look at everything and imo time holds there but he made a few key mistakes.

1. he lost 2 sentries to banshees, one being completely avoidable.

2. he leaves 1 stalker and 2 full energy sentries in his main for the big fight.

3. didn't pop guardian shield or lay FF for the actual fight. i think he could have trapped all the marines w/ 2 FF at 10:51.

one random thought i had was that he doesn't actually need 3 immortals. they're bad vs marines and banshees so would it be viable to get 2 immortals and a warp prism to drop the immortals behind the tanks so its easier to target fire them? 2 immortals can take out 3 tanks no problem right?
Point 1: I agree, but it happens.

Point 2: Sloppy but I highly doubt it changes the outcome.

Point 3: No FF here is a big mistake. One thing that FF does however, is it traps your immortals so you cant focus the tanks...another BS thing about the crap range of the immo. If he FF, yes he kills a lot more marines but he will still have a handful left, mixed with 3 banshees and 3 tanks. You either kill some tanks or marines but rarely both.

As for your warp prism idea. I can think of a handful of guys that could pull that off. The prism is made of glass and one good shufflestep and the marines kill it, and the two immos which means you lose.
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08-22-2011 , 06:56 PM
the warp prism is a nice idea; i saw Kiwikaki break a 1-1-1 all in one time by dropping immortals. too bad he lost the game on the second push lol...
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08-22-2011 , 07:19 PM
yea the insane thing at the 1-1-1 is you can essentially do it twice
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08-22-2011 , 07:21 PM
Or you can just wait til the 20 minute mark to hit with an insane amount of stuff.
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08-22-2011 , 07:22 PM
if you wait til then you should probably lose
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08-22-2011 , 07:27 PM
How? It's not like toss can tech to colossus because they're expecting a one base push so they're just going to have a ****load of zealots... which don't exactly scale amazingly.
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