i find it amazing that despite having played terran for 6 months and toss like... never, my protoss is still leaps and bounds (middish diamond i'd guess?) better than my terran.

mass gateway/archon with constantly chrono'd upgrades, chargelots and a good # of sentries is pretty nice vs terran.

No, it really is useless. If the computers behaved even moderately rationally, I'd agree, but they don't, so I don't.

I take point 2 as a compliment

By multiplayer I just mean 1v1 ladder. And that's what I'd do. I skipped practice league when I first started playing though. I mean if you think you can handle it just go straight for ladder. Practice league is slow and has debris everywhere. It's not going to help you much tbh.

if you dont know what units come out of what buildings, it's most likely not useless

or he could just play protoss and prob hit plat with his current SC2 knowledge amirite bro amirite

all he's gotta do is figure out what building the colossus comes out of amirite amirite

Come on. Think of it like this. Would you play 4v4 to practice opening up 1 z 7 sentry vs zerg? No, because you'll never see the correct unit comp to practice micro against. Same logic here, the computers under-produce units or respond in ways that people wouldn't respond depending on the difficulty setting. You will get to play around with the units and make workers and stuff, but you won't learn anything that 99% of players on ladder don't already know.

I think you get more out of playing 1 game of 1v1 ladder than you do out of a practice league game or a vs computer game.

Secondly, there are in game charts to learn what comes out of what. If you have to do it yourself, fine, but that's wasting time imo.

i think the campaign would be very helpful for someone completely new to the game. it does a good job of introducing you to the units/buildings and what they do. they also throw in a bunch of help for newbies in there as well. not to mention it's actually really fun imo.

Meh, I guess I just learn differently then. SC2 is my first RTS and I never played the campaign until way into playing multiplayer. And even then I quit after a couple missions.

poor brotoss:

taken from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=252455 (which has some graphs and more info/analysis):

"Individual League Winners and Runner-Ups (48 Events):
First place:
Terran - 21
Protoss - 3
Zerg - 11

Second place:
Terran - 20
Protoss - 6
Zerg - 9

Non-mirror winrates by race:
Terran: 56.2%
Zerg: 51.7%
Protoss: 40.9%

Winrates by matchup (2,229 games)
TvZ: 51.8%
PvT: 38.8%
ZvP: 56.6%

Total podiums for Terran is 41, followed by Zerg with 20 and Protoss with 9. It appears that Terran has been taking more than their fair share of wins, particularly compared to the Protoss statistics. These numbers do seem to be statistically significant when paired with the results from SC2 Statistics."

Read more at the link.

Obv they are statistically significant from a technical standpoint, what a dumb statement. Of course there is a ton of problems with the logic used to reach that conclusion.

That shouldn't be too surprising to anyone though. Just need more MC-esque players.

Thanks for the advice. Will play a couple games against the computer just to practice making units, even if the computer is basically doing nothing. Skip campaign. Then move to practice games -> ladder. Game is patching now

Is protoss the easiest race to learn to start, or doesn't it really matter much?

I beat people all the time with just marines and scvs.

*shades*

most total noobs probably start as terran, since that is what they are playing in the campaign. as for race, protoss is definitely 'easier' in many aspects than some of the others. i'd say that you don't have to multitask as much in order to be successful compared to some of the other races. zerg is unlike the other two in terms of overall macro (but easier battle micro IMO).

my suggestion would be to try all 3 vs. a super easy computer for a few games with each race and see how you like playing them all. then make your decision from that.

Zerg macro is easy. No production facilities. Hold down d and r.

In all seriousness I think toss is the best starter race for anyone. I actually might learn some builds and ladder toss on my smurf to see how far I can get.

i did that with a smurf account (my friend quit the game after 4 campaign matches LAWL) with zerg. i have played probably 100 or so games with zerg and am probably a low-mid diamond with them, winning pretty much off pure mechanics as opposed to build orders or timings.

you really take for granted how well you truly know your race when you off race. the timings/build orders/etc are all gone. playing zerg has furthered my thoughts with random players, in that i feel it's very difficult to be good at this game playing a few other races.

I'm doing this with Terran atm, except I'm completely winging it (aka playing like a Zerg lol). I managed diamond within 20 games, though I think it was mostly on the strength of my mechanics relative to my opponents. I've only been following a loose plan that I formed based on what I've seen pros do, but haven't bothered with learning any builds. Ironically, I kind of invented a super early TvP pressure with 2 marauders and a marine, which is more than I can say I've done in terms of developing builds as a Zerg.

I wouldn't recommend that approach for a new player though. Just pick whatever race appeals to you the most (regardless what we or anyone about it being easy/hard/imba or whatever). Take an hour or two, learn a few standard builds (one for each matchup is good), and practice them vs a comp. Gospy's right in that playing comps is worthless, but it's not the point of this exercise. The point is to run through your chosen build a few times to get a sense of what's going on with it. Even running through it 5 times will make you so much more comfortable when you start playing humans. Don't even worry about the comp. Just focus on your build and doing it as well as possible.

Welcome to the beta

yea that's like the oldest build in sc2

I've been trying some new **** PvZ, it always fails. I feel like my strongest builds are all all ins, I'm trying to work in some other stuff, I just don't know what to do.

It's like I'm rolling dice at times.

Thanks for killing it

I didn't play in the beta though, nor have I seen people do it. Guess it came and went in the beta? Or maybe it's because it's a TvP build and I play Zerg (ergo, I wouldn't see it).

I saw that a ton in the beta and around early release.

All-ins vs. zerg is the most EV+ strat imo. Nothing else works. Granted, I suck but I still stand by the statement.

I can go blink every game and win a decent %. My blink is good enough to be +EV. Just two problems. It gets boring and occasionally I get hard countered(either by like legit scouting and good play or by luck) and I get really mad.

I've been doing a slight variation of my blink build where I feign pressure and just expand where it looks like I'm attacking and start double robo colossi.

I also have an idea involving opening sg into hts + sg units. I think if you can survive long enough void + ht + mothership is unstoppable. Esp if you have like 2-3 colo left.

I have been forcing myself to open sg a lot just cause my sg is so weak.

-----

Losing all these games this season has been kinda annoying but it's fun to try new stuff. I lost like 3 games today where if I had played standard I would have maybe won, but I would never know if something works. I've always played so standard and to what I read on forums. It's nice to try new stuff even if it means a few more losses. I could go super super solid every game but I think that's more harmful long term.

"your lack of response to my facebook posts leaves alot to be desired"

coherent thought or no?

That doesn't appear to follow the structure of the idiom iirc.

It's describing quality. Can you assign quality to something that isn't present?

More appropriate: Your work leaves a lot to be desired or Your responses leave a lot to be desired. The "lack of" and "to my facebook posts" make it unclear and convoluted imo.

but you know what i am saying qq