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04-04-2011 , 08:39 PM

#3376

phillydilly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 7,475

beat: i just looked at those screenshots again and i'm floating ****loads of resources.
maybe i can't macro...

brag: can win without macro.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 08:54 PM

#3377

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

you should tell him that he can also make hellions and banshees

Quote

04-04-2011 , 09:12 PM

#3378

phillydilly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 7,475

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karak

you should tell him that he can also make hellions and banshees

hell no
blue flame hellions are way op

Quote

04-04-2011 , 09:16 PM

#3379

AKSpartan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9,931

Way.

Solution: SCVs build blue flame add-on onto hellions, costs 25/25 and takes 12 seconds. Blue flame cannot hit probes and is deflected by zealot psi blades.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 09:49 PM

#3380

phillydilly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 7,475

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKSpartan

Way.

Solution: SCVs build blue flame add-on onto hellions, costs 25/25 and takes 12 seconds. Blue flame cannot hit probes and is deflected by zealot psi blades.

i'll agree to this if there is also an all wheel drive upgrade that lets them go up cliffs.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 09:51 PM

#3381

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

Hellions are racecars. Make them look like Dune Buggies and I'll agree to that.

Except make it cost a ton and take a long time to research.

My seriousness: Decrease Roach HP. They are a PITA. Only unit in the game that I think is slightly too strong.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:04 PM

#3382

pwncakery

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,027

Oh for beta roaches. 145 hp, 2 base armor, burrow+move on the same upgrade, 3 range and 1 supply. Oh, and I think the regen rate might have been even faster too. Not positive tho.

ALL DAY ERRY DAY.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:07 PM

#3383

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

Maybe increase their cost rather than decrease their HP. They are just too good in large numbers and it seems like any zerg who masses Roaches can get a ton of them.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:31 PM

#3384

Fermion5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,381

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillydilly

beat: i just looked at those screenshots again and i'm floating ****loads of resources.
maybe i can't macro...

brag: can win without macro.

you're going to be floating a lot at the end if you spend the last few minutes in chat.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:43 PM

#3385

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianFX

My seriousness: Decrease Roach HP. They are a PITA. Only unit in the game that I think is slightly too strong.

Spoiler:

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:44 PM

#3386

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

Spoiler:

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:46 PM

#3387

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

the only reason anyone uses roaches is because of the slight range upgrade. they arent super useful as it is now unless villain forces you to use them OR you have a huge lead and want to be safe with a more robust army. you need them to kill blue flame herrions and to meatshield stupid protoss dps. they dont kill things very fast, get lolraped by mass thors (aren't even remotely economically efficient against them; dingo and i tested this the other night), and mass stimmed marine lols at them too. oh and tanks do bonus damage.

oh and immortals do bonus damage.

oh and stalkers do bonus damage.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:46 PM

#3388

TNixon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianFX

Maybe increase their cost rather than decrease their HP. They are just too good in large numbers and it seems like any zerg who masses Roaches can get a ton of them.

Obvious that you've never actually played zerg IMO.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:47 PM

#3389

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

oh and marauders do bonus damage

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:49 PM

#3390

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNixon

Obvious that you've never actually played zerg IMO.

Yeah, I have too much respect for myself.

Spoiler:

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:54 PM

#3391

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

but in all seriousness, if you are struggling with roaches you likely need more tanks or to mix in marauders. upgraded and stimmed marines are also quite good at handling them.

do you use heavy thor play or blue flame harass? what is inducing them to tech to roaches so heavily in your games?

Quote

04-04-2011 , 10:55 PM

#3392

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

I R PROTOSS GOD!!!

Need mas Immortals.

And I'm in Gold, so it's probably just noobs who also think Roaches are OP and decide that's all they are going to do. I scout, they scout, I kill their scout with my 1 stalker. They get roaches.

If Zerg goes ling/hydra, it's ez-game for me. If they go anything hydra, it's usually autowin for me. Mass roaches and I struggle. I have won games before where they've gotten a lot of roaches, but those games are harder to win.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:02 PM

#3393

TNixon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,720

You don't need mass immortals to crush roaches. One robo producing immos can pretty much kill infinity roaches.

Stalkers are pretty good against roaches too, and forcefields are omgwtfpwn against roaches without burrow movement.

When I pull zerg, roaches end up being something I get forced to build, not something I want to build.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:04 PM

#3394

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

I'll have to do some testing. I just know I struggle against roaches.

No big deal.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:06 PM

#3395

pwncakery

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,027

I know I played poorly in this game, don't really need a detailed list of what went wrong...

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:07 PM

#3396

TNixon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianFX

I'll have to do some testing. I just know I struggle against roaches.

No big deal.

You're right, no big deal.

Until you start saying stuff like this seriously:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianFX

My seriousness: Decrease Roach HP. They are a PITA. Only unit in the game that I think is slightly too strong.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:11 PM

#3397

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

No reason to start the trollcasm.

I meant it in a way that it wasn't a big deal that we had to debate it. I'll go test it (and we can stop debating), I don't have a problem with that. I'm not sticking with my argument that roaches are OP. I said I struggle against them. If you guys say they aren't actually that good then I believe you. You can't bring in my initial thoughts after the debate when you change my mind. haha

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:20 PM

#3398

JStunna

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,938

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karak

the only reason anyone uses roaches is because of the slight range upgrade. they arent super useful as it is now unless villain forces you to use them OR you have a huge lead and want to be safe with a more robust army. you need them to kill blue flame herrions and to meatshield stupid protoss dps. they dont kill things very fast, get lolraped by mass thors (aren't even remotely economically efficient against them; dingo and i tested this the other night), and mass stimmed marine lols at them too. oh and tanks do bonus damage.

oh and immortals do bonus damage.

oh and stalkers do bonus damage.

No. They use them b/c they're fast, deal good damage, have decent hp, and as a result, are good offensive units.

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:21 PM

#3399

Karak

ELIte

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 62,726

no they use them because they have no other option unless they change their entire meta (like i have!)

Quote

04-04-2011 , 11:34 PM

#3400

ItalianFX

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 16,311

So far I've been testing:

1 Stalker > 1 Roach
1 Stalker < 2 Roaches
1 Immortal 3 shots 1 Roach
1 Immortal < 5 Roaches
1 Immortal > 4 Roaches w/ 0-1 upgrade
1 Immortal < 4 Roaches w/ 1-1 upgrade
1 Stalker > 1 Roach w/ 1-1 upgrade (Stalker had 3 HP left)

So yeah, clearly Stalker > Roach, but only if you can stay with upgrades or outnumber Roaches.

Gives me a new perspective on them.

Quote

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