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05-05-2011 , 08:59 AM
USA, sigh.
So FXOpen sponsors a SC2 team, tournaments etc. Decide to check them out. They are a Forex trader with some interesting products and very low deposit requirements. Go to open an account, and, of course, they are not able to accept US clients due to CFTC regulations.
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05-05-2011 , 09:16 AM
wtf i wanna see stunna rage this sounds awesome
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05-05-2011 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianFX
I have no idea how to beat Terran anymore. Seems like they get super fast stim/conc then come and roll over me with a bajillion marines and marauders just by clicking "T" and then A-move.

I think Terran is the one race that I just can't seem to crack. Stalkers are good against marines, but terrible against marauders. Too many zealots and you can't protect yourself against air. I got some colossi, but then he has vikings, which nullifies the Colossi pretty quickly, especially with the DPS of marines.

I don't know.

Anyways, pretty big brag. Went 2-2 tonight and didn't get mad. I even said "gg" one time!!! OmG.
What kind of army do you typically try and hold stim pushes with zeal/4sentry or stalker sentry? I find zealot 4 sentry difficult to micro well. Have you worked in 2 base colossi range pushes with stalker sentry? They are incredibly strong and often win you the game outright.
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05-05-2011 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar
What kind of army do you typically try and hold stim pushes with zeal/4sentry or stalker sentry? I find zealot 4 sentry difficult to micro well. Have you worked in 2 base colossi range pushes with stalker sentry? They are incredibly strong and often win you the game outright.
Usually it's a mix of more stalkers than zealots. I think in this case I had, let's say 3 zealots and 6 stalkers. I can't say for sure of the numbers.

If I remember correctly, I had expanded and shortly after it was completed is when he attacked. He ended up taking out my expansion because I had to retreat into my main. My first colossus came out after I retreated, but I had to pull back so that I wouldn't lose it.

I'm always afraid to mix in a lot of sentries when I'm going some gas-heavy build since sentries cost so much gas. I want to make sure I have enough gas when I'm ready to get colossi.

I just barely held off his 1st and 2nd attacks, but when I got an observer over to his base he had a huge backup just sitting there. Once he scanned me and saw I barely had anything then he just came with tanks, vikings, MMM and hurt me badly, but I held that off. Then he brought the rest of his tank, viking, MMM, thor party, and I just quit as soon as I saw the rest of his army come as I didn't have anything that could hold that off.

I don't know what it is, but sentries just don't do their job for me. Whenever I practice with them I have no problem, but then in game I go to try to FF during a fight and I only get 1 off. I have to try and remember to manually redo each button sequence, but by that time it's really no use as I go to put a FF down, the location of the fight changes, and then I have a FF in the middle of nowhere.

I'll have to try to find a build that has a lot of sentries in it.
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05-05-2011 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolin
wtf i wanna see stunna rage this sounds awesome
Playing w/ Karak on my team darkens me up.
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05-05-2011 , 11:25 AM
Yea so the thing is if you get a lot of zealots you *MUST* forcefield perfectly behind almost all the units or you will die. To do this you keep your sentries right next to your zealots and FF behind them. You only need 4-5 sentries with a zealot army IMO as long as you get them early enough to charge up energy. If you do not FF and you are teching to colossi no matter what your army composition is you should die.

Stalker sentry is a lot more forgiving IMO. You still only need 4-6 sentries maybe 2-3 zeals to soak damage and you want to split the army in half so that none of their army in the back does any damage. A nice technique is to drop to FF to create a hallway then add FF when you have enough units trapped.

You arent wrong that sentries are bad in small engagements but they are essential for the medium sized battles. Nice point about the two army compositions. If you go stalker sentry its great for 2 base aggression. You can sit outside terrans main and use colossi range to attack buildings and FF trap any units that try and attack your hold positioned deathball. You want +weapons with this army and its great for teching to storm after colossi on your third base. Zealot heavy armies dont do well off 2 base so you typically want a quicker third and armor upgrades with charge. You also want to engage in more open areas and you shouldnt try and break terrans natural but rather deny the third.
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05-05-2011 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStunna
Playing w/ Karak on my team darkens me up.
needs more raffy imo!
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05-05-2011 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar
Yea so the thing is if you get a lot of zealots you *MUST* forcefield perfectly behind almost all the units or you will die. To do this you keep your sentries right next to your zealots and FF behind them. You only need 4-5 sentries with a zealot army IMO as long as you get them early enough to charge up energy. If you do not FF and you are teching to colossi no matter what your army composition is you should die.

Stalker sentry is a lot more forgiving IMO. You still only need 4-6 sentries maybe 2-3 zeals to soak damage and you want to split the army in half so that none of their army in the back does any damage. A nice technique is to drop to FF to create a hallway then add FF when you have enough units trapped.

You arent wrong that sentries are bad in small engagements but they are essential for the medium sized battles. Nice point about the two army compositions. If you go stalker sentry its great for 2 base aggression. You can sit outside terrans main and use colossi range to attack buildings and FF trap any units that try and attack your hold positioned deathball. You want +weapons with this army and its great for teching to storm after colossi on your third base. Zealot heavy armies dont do well off 2 base so you typically want a quicker third and armor upgrades with charge. You also want to engage in more open areas and you shouldnt try and break terrans natural but rather deny the third.
I also want to say that this game was on Backwater Gulch. I hate the ramp, I hate the expansion with that stupid hole in the middle, and taking a 3rd is pretty tough depending on your opponent. I went to take my 3rd and he had a marine sitting there. I couldn't take the 2nd expansion just outside of my base because we were in close spawns and I knew he was pushing on me, so I decided to take the expansion that was further away, but he had a marine sitting there and he attacked my 2nd just as my probe got there.

Terran might just be the hole in my game for awhile until I can get enough experience and figure out something. Maybe delay my tech a little longer until I build up an army?

The thing I hate is that when you get colossi, they get vikings and that shuts down your colossi pretty quickly. You can't really engage with your stalkers with a medium sized army because then you're getting slammed by marines and marauders. And it's not like you can hide it as they can just scan whenever they want and see everything they need to see without worrying about cloak detection, or that the Terran will see your observer floating around and scan it and kill it, denying your scouting (if you can follow that).

So maybe it would be better to tech to storm...hmm..but then they get ghosts. I don't know. Without going into too much thought, Terran just seems to have all of the advantages.
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05-05-2011 , 11:51 AM
dont tech to HT's! collossi phoenix, one robo two stargates! [i've been brainwashed by stunan and gospy]
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05-05-2011 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillydilly
USA, sigh.
So FXOpen sponsors a SC2 team, tournaments etc. Decide to check them out. They are a Forex trader with some interesting products and very low deposit requirements. Go to open an account, and, of course, they are not able to accept US clients due to CFTC regulations.
I also tried this .
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05-05-2011 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolin
dont tech to HT's! collossi phoenix, one robo two stargates! [i've been brainwashed by stunan and gospy]
That's a lot of tech when I'm getting attacked very early on. I won't be able to get there if I can't hold off the attacks.
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05-05-2011 , 12:09 PM
if youre getting attacked very early on they wont have enough vikings to completely shut down your collossi, and they should be fine with a few stalkers ^^
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05-05-2011 , 12:13 PM
You don't add the stargates until around the time you're taking your 3rd, (obv you can mess around with different timings, such as throwing them down when you scout your opponent scout your colo).
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05-05-2011 , 12:33 PM
Hey guys, if you're playing random team games (3 of you in a 4v4, etc), invite me.
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05-05-2011 , 12:45 PM
go to the 2p2 channel and ppl just do games all the time
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05-05-2011 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karak
lol stunna

a guy runs by us in 4s with like a dozen lings (i was terran and didnt wall in a 4 person shared base)

stunna goes "gj karak" and rage quits

we hold the lings off with like, no problem at all (cause it was only like 12 - honestly i was cutting marines and i still had enough lol) and go on to barely BARELy lose the game playing 3 v. 4.

bad mood tonight buddy?
stunna disconnected in a 3v3 we were playing together. stunna gone? np np, orange warp prism drops DTs and then floods their base with colossi and stalkers, owned.
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05-05-2011 , 01:00 PM
Orange is a good ally imo. Gets me wins I didn't even know I had received.
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05-05-2011 , 01:33 PM
Stunna, remember when you didn't play team games?
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05-05-2011 , 02:01 PM
AK, remember when you didn't play LoL?
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05-05-2011 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianFX
I also want to say that this game was on Backwater Gulch. I hate the ramp, I hate the expansion with that stupid hole in the middle, and taking a 3rd is pretty tough depending on your opponent. I went to take my 3rd and he had a marine sitting there. I couldn't take the 2nd expansion just outside of my base because we were in close spawns and I knew he was pushing on me, so I decided to take the expansion that was further away, but he had a marine sitting there and he attacked my 2nd just as my probe got there.

Terran might just be the hole in my game for awhile until I can get enough experience and figure out something. Maybe delay my tech a little longer until I build up an army?

The thing I hate is that when you get colossi, they get vikings and that shuts down your colossi pretty quickly. You can't really engage with your stalkers with a medium sized army because then you're getting slammed by marines and marauders. And it's not like you can hide it as they can just scan whenever they want and see everything they need to see without worrying about cloak detection, or that the Terran will see your observer floating around and scan it and kill it, denying your scouting (if you can follow that).

So maybe it would be better to tech to storm...hmm..but then they get ghosts. I don't know. Without going into too much thought, Terran just seems to have all of the advantages.
Dont worry about PvT it is a BRUTAL punishing matchup by far the hardest. I also veto Backwater so I cant help there! Generally terrans 3-4 rax off the second base assuming they went bio they wont have vikings until you have about 2-3 colossi with range (mech will have even later vikings) so your timings could be off here (early drop play usually gets 2 rax here but much less common). Get outside their main with your first colossi get your proxy pylon down and hold position your stalker ball while running around poking with your colossi, easy damage and often some easy wins.

After that point you generally want weapon upgrades, extra gateways and a third all around the same time. I do think its important to 2 base quite hard in some instances like if you lose a bit too much to drops otherwise you can definitely get caught. I also try and put pylons around the entire map so I can warp in units to help my expos or pressure exposed terran expos. I would say thats a key strategy towards winning long macro games.

In terms of MMM being so efficient its always always a problem. Use really good positioning if you are relying on a stalker/sentry ball and going storm is the most stable transition after that IMO. Or if you go zealots I like upgrades and/or phoenix and get a *TON* of gateways and trade your zealots for marauders and always save your gas units. Another style is mass gateway although its very very multitask intensive. Basically any game that you dont kill bio off 2 base should be treated as a super macro game and just focus on being up a base and out collecting resources and *NEVER* losing your entire army as this is where terran shines and toss falls apart. The bane of protoss is that you must choose your engagements SO carefully or you lose never get over aggressive.
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05-05-2011 , 06:04 PM
Seriously, blink play is straight hard-countered by 3 gate robo? Like I can blink micro perfectly and you still aren't going to lose 15 food of your army? ****ing ******ed
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05-05-2011 , 06:13 PM
there is a timing when blink can beat robo i think, depending on the amount of immos they have. but if you let them get out like more than 2 immos it's gg. if they go like 1 immo and straight to col though, there is usually a timing when you can win.
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05-05-2011 , 06:26 PM
This game isn't even fun. I hate the dynamics of every matchup. PvP is ****ing ******ed, build order loss bull****. PvT is expand and tech to AOE or die, which smart Terrans can exploit by using their more efficient bio force early to secure an economic advantage. ****ing stupid. PvZ - who gives a ****, the other two matchups blow.

Oh and bio is a ****ing joke and Terrans who think that their race's micro is anything resembling difficult are delusional.
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05-05-2011 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpartan
Seriously, blink play is straight hard-countered by 3 gate robo? Like I can blink micro perfectly and you still aren't going to lose 15 food of your army? ****ing ******ed
Isn't the point of blink v robo to use blink to keep him pinned to his main and then expand behind it, rather than to ever engage?
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05-05-2011 , 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mittens
Isn't the point of blink v robo to use blink to keep him pinned to his main and then expand behind it, rather than to ever engage?
What do you think I was trying to do? He can push down his ramp into me safely, and then what? I had my expansion finished before he even started his and it didn't make a damn difference.
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