I was thinking more because you guys haven't played since you switched races and raffy is probably at or slightly above my skill level.

how could raffy be above your skill level if he never plays

btw other than me dicking around experimenting with builds that cut drones hard on tal'darim (LOL), we haven't played for real in a while. we should sometime, i'd like to see where my zvp sits. im pretty damn sure it's master's level, but my other 2 match ups are what is holding me back.

im also, like i said, really bad at toss 1 base all-ins that arent bad 4 gates or stupid **** someone is just making up.

There was a time when raffy used to beat me every time. And I still think if he and I played right now it would probably be pretty even just by virtue of how lame pvp is.

And I'm always on, we're always playing games but you're never in them for whatever reason.

im laddering trying to get to masters ldo

i also sort of have the johnny syndrome i think when it comes to playing with observers. it's not that i get nervous, but i always seem to make more mistakes. idk.

I would love to see karak vs gospy

Just saw this on the Blizzard forum, which was posted 3 days ago. I'm not sure where to post this, but this seems to be the current place where all of the cool kids hang out:

Matchmaking
We’ve made some improvements to the matchmaking system and it should now be better than ever at pairing evenly matched opponents. This will be especially true for team matches. The system is now more accurate when attempting to find a good match, which can result in slightly longer wait times if one can’t be found immediately.

We've played many a game.

who needs an E key when you have the 1 base win key (:


edit: i havent played in years gospy, i promise you'd 100% crush me every time

not in a while!

Alright so let's just play later tonight. Raffy should play too.

We can play 10 games on whatever map you want, with you setting up map positions however you want. You will play T at your current skill level, and I will play Z. You can play however you want, and I will beat you 8 out of 10 games or you will win the bet. We can do something like 10$ a game and just play 10 total games, or we can just do a straight bet of X$.

Please schedule this so I can watch.

There is absolutely nothing on 2+2 I hate more than people who get all prop bet alpha male with **** when discussing theory or a hand or news or something. Like seriously it's my biggest pet peeve. And I pretty much refuse to participate in it. Just debate me with ideas. There's no reason to start the BET MONEY **** with everything. It just leads to angst and degrades subforum communities. The only place they are remotely entertaining is in sports simply because prop betting is so intrinsic in them. If you insist on trying this out (although, as I state below, I think the conditions are not creatable in customs), why not just offer to play the games as friendly fun and to learn?

Not to mention the situations I was talking about are not creatable in custom games, as it's not a ladder match, you know my skill level, you know what I plan to do, there's lots of variance, if you scout close position you 100% know what's coming, I can't exploit the meta game of you playing safe (cause I suck as terran), etc. etc.

I was just trying to make a point. I'm sorry I forgot this is 2+2 and if I speak somewhat in absolutes I have a guy ramming pound-your-chest prop bet challenges down my throat.

Another important point is that I'm assuming people of equal skill. Obviously as Zerg I will beat a gold level terran (which is what I am, possibly lower) nearly every single time regardless of positions. Just because your Z is a lot better than my T proves nothing (although you are taking my example far too seriously/literally regardless).

And obviously I'm not just spinning a circle here talking to myself. MLG, currently the most major SC2 competitive circuit in the US, does not allow close spawn on these maps. GSL, the top in the world, has eliminated many (although not all, but these guys have micro on an insane level) of the maps from its pool that allow exploitation of stuff like that.

It's not like I'm speaking with no authority here, and I was limiting to very few situations. I don't like to be seen as an imbalance bitcher outside of me just being tongue-in-cheek (and those posts should be obvious - and I'm also one who does not think ZvP is really that imbalanced, which is the biggest sticking point for Zs right now. I actually think balance in the game is damn close outside of some real high levels of play), but come on now. There's lots of other people who feel so strongly about this that they've changed the rules of major tournaments.

wat

sorry let me cliff note it:

My pet peeve is the exact opposite of this; people who make ridiculous claims and then are completely unwilling to back them up with money. Why should we sit here for hours, pointlessly theorycrafting when we can have a situation set up which both of you believe will be profitable in the long run?

If someone says to me, "I think I will win in situation X 50% of the time", and I say to them "Ok, lets play situation X and I will lay you +150", and they say, "Nah bro why you gotta get all alpha male and bring money into this?", that says to me they don't actually believe what they claim to believe.

I used to play cards with this guy at school. I'd make a bet and he would say reluctantly: "I bet I am ahead, I bet I would win this hand" and then he'd fold.

And I'm thinking to myself, that's exactly the opportunity I've presented you with!

Could you accomplish the same goal offering to just play the matches out as a friendly exercise of finding out the best way? You know... for the sake of finding out the answer to the betterment of all parties involved rather than BET MONEY DUDE.


Why do we all need to pound our chests and throw MONEY on the line!? I mean, a lot of people, esp in non poker forums, can't afford to prop bet, even a small amount. That doesn't make them wrong. Even if one could afford it, it's sort of a silly outcome. Why do we need to bet money? Does that make you feel better when you challenge my ideas?

This has become a bigger and bigger problem imo. On the politard forum a couple months ago, I was arguing an idea. Unlike SC2, it wasn't testable in even a remotely accurate form and was something rather arbitrary. Yet one guy challenged me to bet 5,000 dollars on the idea as judged by a random group of people on something entirely arbitrary. When I declined, he responded to my posts 3-4 times goading me into betting with him. When I would not bet that, he declared I was wrong.

I mean, really?

The same thing happened to Henry17 in OOT a couple months ago. IT was really silly, but after he declined to prop several thousand on something, we had multiple guys pounding their chest like a gorilla declaring themselves winners of the debate. IT's not like he or I couldn't afford the challenged props. It's just that it's a silly way to settle things.

And I think everyone here knows I love prop betting, but I like doing it for fun. When it comes to a logical debate of ideas (especially those which can be tested at small expense of time and other resources), I think it detracts highly from any sort of intellectual exercise. I'm speaking very loftily here, but this has just been a thing I've seen happen more and more often here (and I've been on 2+2 for a long time) more than ever, and I randomly decided this evening to live blog about it in SC2 BBV, apparently.

There are too many variables to draw anything meaningful from it anyway. At least imo.

I agree. And I don't know about you guys, but I actually really enjoy theorycrafting. I've never understood the big stigma against it. It's fun to me.

I even theorycrafted on modding in the mod forum the other day. That's pretty nerdy/awful.

Obviously making bets on a video game as a means of determining edges is nothing at all like making bets on the opinions of others as a means of testing whether your political ideology is "correct" or not. The comparison is pretty ridiculous.

Of course we could "accomplish the same goal" without risking any money, but this is a forum composed of gamblers. Why would any of us turn down an affordable bet we perceive to be +EV, as you both claim to believe? A willingness to risk money shows you actually have confidence in your stated opinions and that you actually spend time thinking them through, rather then simply vomiting out meaningless conjecture with no basis in reality or logic backing it up. A lack of willingness to risk money generally demonstrates the exact opposite.

There are an infinite number of match ups that we could theoretically spend our time testing out, but if everyone is in agreeance as to what the result will be, what's the point? The interesting ideas to test out will be the ones people disagree on and thus will be willing to wager on.

so next time theres an argument and i have the urge to SAY "THROWDOWN BEST OF 3 GOGOGO" i should really say "THROWDOWN BEST OF THREE ODDS ARE X:Y QUOTE AND BOOK IT GOGOGOGOGO"

It seems kind of weird how you are taking it so personally. You made a claim and when someone offered you a bet to back up that claim you are going on some crazy tangent about how this is ruining 2p2. This is a gambling forum full of people who gamble on all sorts of ****. I've bet you before that pwn would beat you in a BO3 TvT when he'd played less than 10 games as terran. I knew that he had a 10% chance of winning but I didnt care, as you said it was for fun more or less.

Quit taking it personally and play me some PvZ games tonight so I can stop losing every game against zerg.