My collosi can be behind stalkers and vikings can still be in range without my stalkers being able to hit them

Right because you tech-switching to marines is so much harder than me tech-switching to immortals.

And have them get annihilated by marauders.
So I have to research legs, blink, and collosus range? (The answer is yes, which is why I'm saying it's a problem)

We should play 1v1.

---

Maybe you guys are right in saying removing marauder stim is a lol-tastic idea.
That was one of the suggestions I had because I disliked the way TvP matchup is set up and I didn't realize how big of a nerf removing stim on marauders is (though I'm not completely persuaded on this yet). Most of you seem to get on the bandwagon to say I'm a ****** or w/e without reading the newer suggestions I came up with though so I'll just take my leave from this thread.

Have you not seen oGsInca vs Aya in the ro64 of GSL season2? If not, I suggest you do.

Like honestly, game 3 alone is enough to show how stim marauders and vikings are not overpowered vs toss.

ksight i'm personally not picking on you, i agree mauraders need a nerf... take away their uber damage to buildings/make them slightly weaker would be nice... but collosus just need good control. if his vikings are shooting your collosus move them back and let your stalkers get in range and target fire them. vikings have nothing else to shoot anyways, so they'll just chase

Ksight have you tried any colossus/phoenix builds? They can be pretty powerful from what Ive seen. Also a lot of toss seem to be going chargelot/HT instead of collosi. Isnt PvZ way harder than TvZ though? Not that I completely disagree with you I think toss is the closest to being UP at the moment. I think one buff toss should get is better warp prism, cheaper and without the long animation to start warping in units I think that would do a lot to level things. I always thought the worst thing about PvT was the drops not really marauders in particular. I think marauders are perfect the way things are and considering Terran has a pretty weak end game it makes a lot of sense to me and I play zerg fwiw.

Just to let you know, ksight, I am not jumping on any bandwagon to rip on you. I certainly think marauders are a power unit for terran and one that is pivotal in most, if not all, of their builds. Any sizable nerf would have a great effect on those builds. I would like to see some different ideas from removing stim to deal with their strength (esp. with concussive shell, as it makes them ridiculous), as utterly removing stim completely changes the game dynamic. The 20 damage on stim was a decent start. Vikings are also a decently tough unit to change. Their air range is quite sizable, and it's really hard to deal with them without upgrades (Stim marines, Blink stalkers, or hydras on creep/mutas), which is sort of unfair when you realize they are lower tier starport units that can be made in 2s. However, they are only air to air, so that probably deals with most things other than the colossus.

Zerg is unstoppable.

That is all.

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKtjceMzHhM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt6g1LrxLKo

Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxNT4C9ys8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dsrgRmKe_8

Fruit Dealer vs Slayers_Boxer

zerg is unstoppable when you let them macro at will, sure

Terran is the weakest race right now, but only slightly IMO. The balance is pretty solid overall, but I definitely think Protoss is going to get nerfstomped soon.

P is getting nerfed, but T isn't weak, they just need to relearn their MUs without having ezmode harass into GG options.

P isnt getting nerfed

what are you smoking ._.

Strange I had the impression P was weakest atm

(checkout GSL results so far)

why the **** would P get nerfed

You can't use the GSL results as a means of determining balance. That's not a proper sample size.

P is getting buffed+nerfed because David Kim says so:

If you continue that interview, that guy says something about them looking at psionic storm specifically. Which means they are probably thinking about nerfing it. My guess would be to start it on a cool down, but who knows. Either way, it's ridiculously stupid.

Nerfing storm seems insane. I liked what he said about making toss stronger early game and terran stronger late game so I guess I would be ok with it if that were somehow accomplished.

You guys must not know what it's like to be on the other side of psystorm, it's op as ****. Specifically, it's way too cost effective once you get the upgrade energy thing.

A protoss invests like 800 gas in that tech tree before even making a single 150 gas unit and you're calling that too cost effective?

where did you get the 800 gas number from? I just looked at the tech tree

100 for twilight council 200 for archives 200 for storm 150 for energy upgrade and then not actually adding anything together. But still 650 gas and a ******** of build/research time needs to be invested before you can even make use of a single psi-storm. It damn well better be powerful after all that

Pretty much this, it's supposed to be a late game unit and it's supposed to be strong.

Not to mention Terran has the hardest of counters in the ghost. It's not my fault if they don't want to use it.

What level do you play at? Everyone who plays a a mid or high level diamond level and knows what they are talking about won't hesitate to tell you that protoss specifically has an unbeatable late game against terran unless terran has a significant economic advantage. This is common knowledge. And even good protoss who are on the terran is OP bandwagon are willing to admit this. Terran are most powerful in the mid game and the longer the game goes on the less threatening they become, and the more threatening protoss become. The reason for this is that theres no cost effective way to fight the collossus/high templar armies. I know it, other players of experience know it, and blizzard knows it too. Dayvie and the rest of the developpers aren't just looking at psystorm for no reason. They aren't idiots. David Kim is one of the highest ranked players on the world ladder and is the highest ranked random player by far. He knows what he's talking about.


Come on now. You've played me a few times before and I used ghosts every time. You can't simplify it into they have ghosts so high templars do nothing. It's not that simple of a game and the variables aren't that simple.

HTs are really our only option once vikings get out there. Straight up bio balls with support from other units are going to crush gateway mixes every time. I've seen many terrans skip ghosts completely because it effects their maruader count.

I don't see the balance problem, perhaps I am biased. Ghosts do a fine job in neutralizing HTs/sentries. I mean ghosts spawn with enough energy to emp. If you make it harder to psi storm, you make the margin for error on the side of protoss so incredibly small.

And when I say this I'm speaking purely on a higher level because I know I'm hardly an example for this, I don't claim to be good at this game.

As far as David Kim goes, if I recall correctly he also mentioned part of the reasoning behind nerfing reapers was that they were too powerful in team games.

They will probably change the linear dmg to low starting and high end dmg of storms.