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Old 06-05-2009, 05:10 PM   #26
Dire
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had the reading comprehension of a ten year old. I'll be sure to write as such for you next time. Should expect as much with logic like: "Gee, current games look good relative to games that are currently out. Why should we look for anything better?"
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:29 PM   #27
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

Who has the most to gain from launching a new generation?
Can Sony afford to cut its losses and try to win over the US market by launching early with a cheaper DVD based system thatís more Programmer friendly?
The 360 is in a strong position now but if Microsoft could get a replacement out priced inline with the PS3 it could kill Sonyís Machine stone dead.
I donít imagine Nintendo want to see the end of this generation anytime soon they would have to either compete in processing power or have another idea with as much mass-market appeal as motion sensing controls.
Launching first is no guarantee of successes just look at the Dreamcast but it was hugely influential in the success of both the Megadrive and the Playstation.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:03 PM   #28
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

People talking about Microsoft killing Sony or something like that are really jumping the gun. Remember Nintendo was basically "dead" after the poor showing of gamecube, and they are poised to break all sorts of records with the Wii. Success in one or two generations really doesn't mean much. The top 3 could easily be reversed next generation. I'm sure no one would have taken the bet that PS3 would be in the position it is in right now.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:04 PM   #29
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

Cut what losses? They just started to make money on the ps3 or atleast break even. I think the same goes for the xbox.
I just looked up the sales number:
PS3: 22.73 million
Xbox 360: 30.2 million

These consoles are selling like butter even at a high price point.
This gen is very different from the earlier ones.
These systems are very modular and flexable when it comes to upgrades and changes.
I mean look at Xbox Live and how it has changed and continues to improve. Games are looking better and better.
So I think it's gonna be awhile until we see new consoles from these companies.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:15 PM   #30
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Originally Posted by jah7_fsu1 View Post
People talking about Microsoft killing Sony or something like that are really jumping the gun. Remember Nintendo was basically "dead" after the poor showing of gamecube, and they are poised to break all sorts of records with the Wii. Success in one or two generations really doesn't mean much. The top 3 could easily be reversed next generation. I'm sure no one would have taken the bet that PS3 would be in the position it is in right now.
I think historically you are right, however I think the stakes are higher now. Sony has invested considerably more money in the PS3 than Nintendo did with the GC, so they have a lot to lose and a lot they need to gain. I don't want to debate which system is better, because I don't think its important for this debate. I do think that MS will be the first to unleash a new system, because Nintendo has almost no incentive to create a new system any time soon. Sony is still trying to close the gap with the 360, and I think its a legitimate question to ask if its possible they never will. But, I don't think they will put out a new system until they have closed the gap, or until both MS and Nintendo introduce theirs first.

I mentioned here a while ago that I thought the 360 was kind of a bridge between the original XBOX and whatever they have coming up next. We will probably hear about this new system late next year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see it coming out Xmas time 2011. They are most certainly in the development process and according to reports have already talked to Blizzard about the new system.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #31
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Originally Posted by Dire View Post
I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had the reading comprehension of a ten year old. I'll be sure to write as such for you next time. Should expect as much with logic like: "Gee, current games look good relative to games that are currently out. Why should we look for anything better?"
or how about you just not write anything at all so I don't have to explain what an opinion is
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:23 PM   #32
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

Guys, plz to not be making me babysit threads in this forum
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:27 PM   #33
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

Definetly some interesting comments.

The debate about 1080p is important.

It is because it gives a resolution ceiling to system developers and game developers for the next 8 years or so. Which is an eternity in the technology sector. Especially when you developing a new game or engine. Also this changes the requirements for video cards.

**** - (i'll blame this on still being sick)

Alright second point that i took was that Sony and Xbox are in equal ground now. Both producing a small profit or so off the systems. I can not verfy this or deny it and i'm sure you could manipulate the facts to favour either side. It doesn't really affect my point.

Sony is in a weaker position that Microsoft.

The biggest reason is that it has spent lots of money promoting and developing the blue ray technology. And while this is great. And has encouraged people to purchase their system - it is also their weakness. They can not come out with a new system with a blue ray drive.. People with a PS3 will be confused because part of the reason they bought it was to watch blue ray movies - now they have to buy another blue ray player? (i could have written this better but you get the point)

Microsoft has not so proprietary software with its system. So they are free to be seen as 'the gamers system' this also allows them to explore cheaper options

side note* If i were microsoft i would not include any cd drive with the new console and instead sell games on modified Memory Sticks - cheap, ultra fast, lots of storage.... Can't really be beat.

Alright. i guess i've said enough.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:32 PM   #34
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Originally Posted by Dire View Post
Not any time soon.

The PS3 is a whole lot of trouble and it's loss is the 360's gain.

Sony can't afford to change the situation, and Microsoft doesn't want to.

Before this E3, I would have said 2011 at the latest. I just think Sony's extensive focus on the PSP and not dropping the price of the PS3 says quite alot.
Sony plans to drop the PS3 price when PS3 Slim comes out, September 5. It should be $249 from what I have heard. They had planned to roll out at E3 but the inventory pipeline of legacy PS3's is too great, so they're giving time for that to clear... but not dropping the price to encourage that (for some bizarre reason).

The PS3 isn't "a lot of trouble". It's a far superior system with wildly inferior marketing.

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Old 06-07-2009, 12:08 PM   #35
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

On thinking a bit more - them waiting to sell off some backlogged inventory before dropping the price does not make much sense. The PS3 is already selling quite poorly. And the inevitable post-e3 rumors of a price drop are going to stall the sales even more. I think it's likely the PS3 will be seeing sub100k numbers the next few months. So if they're just waiting til September to drop the price / release slim, then they'd sale like maybe 300k consoles. Not exactly a huge backlog nor much of a reason to delay so long.

The only thing that seems to make much sense is just occham's razor. They obviously had two choices with the PS3: marketshare or profit. They seem to have just chosen the latter.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:30 PM   #36
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

Re: spat about graphics earlier, here's a couple articles about HD capabilities of current-gen consoles:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/not_powerful_enough/
http://insomnia.ac/hardware/the_fake-hd_era/

Quote:
How can it be that even the tiniest, decade-old TV and any cheap-ass DVD player can put your 360/huge-HDTV combo to shame?

The answer to this question is that increasing the resolution doesn't help much, if the system pumping out the visuals isn't correspondingly powerful. It seems obvious once you sit down and think about it: you can blow up a Nintendo 64 game to whatever resolution you want and it will still look as primitive as it normally does -- you might get rid of some jaggies in this way but the game will not look fundamentally better.
Quote:
Now you have to understand that when you hook up your 360/PS3 to your HDTV you are indeed seeing a 720p image (or, more likely, a 768p or 1080p image, since 720p TVs do not really exist). But it's a fake 720p/768p/1080p image, just as fake as what you get when watching a regular TV channel on the same TV -- the console is not redrawing the game at the higher resolution, it is simply upscaling it, stretching it, muddying it up in exactly the same way that a photograph, for example, is muddied up when you stick it in an image-editing program and try to enlarge it past its native resolution.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:14 PM   #37
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Originally Posted by Dire View Post
On thinking a bit more - them waiting to sell off some backlogged inventory before dropping the price does not make much sense. The PS3 is already selling quite poorly. And the inevitable post-e3 rumors of a price drop are going to stall the sales even more.
Price drop "rumors" are going to be a lot less than price drop announcement, especially if that is not coming anytime soon. The only people who hear price drop "rumors" are those in the video game know. Average Joe isn't holding off on buying a PS3 because of some damn rumor.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:51 PM   #38
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

what's a reasonable number that sony is looking @ for a price drop?
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:12 PM   #39
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Originally Posted by Xhad View Post
Re: spat about graphics earlier, here's a couple articles about HD capabilities of current-gen consoles:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/not_powerful_enough/
http://insomnia.ac/hardware/the_fake-hd_era/
I'm pretty sure we render our games at 720p on 360/PS3 and don't just upscale them.

(I'm not 100% sure since I don't work on the graphics at a super low level, but I've done some higher-level graphics work and that's the impression I got)
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:29 PM   #40
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

I think the ball is in microsoft's court.

Sony can't afford to come out with a new system

Nintendo doesn't really rely on state of the art graphics to compete and seem to be happy making money by keeping their price point and keeping demand high.

Microsoft has a fair portion of the market share as is and is unlikely to win over and of nintendo's market share with higher performance hardware. They however could put out a new system in the next couple of years that would force Sony's hand in manner of speaking.

It's an interesting dynamic with companies scared to take risks due to a bad economy, wii holding the market majority with limited performance, and sony the company who would gain the most for comming firstout of the gate is financially unable to do so.

All of this means the normal 5-6 year run will be drawn to more like 7-8 years. This trend will probably continue in the future as computer technology advances become slower.

This generation also has the added effect of online updates making software/hardware add ons much easier.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:19 PM   #41
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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On thinking a bit more - them waiting to sell off some backlogged inventory before dropping the price does not make much sense.
um..... yeah it does. Otherwise they'll have several million dollars(heh depends on the number of systems) worth of inventory that they cannot gain revenue from.

If they can sell a couple hundred thousand before the slim system comes out with the reduced price, they would probably end up ahead ($ wise) then if they just released the new slim system next month. Its not like this **** for Sony is gonna fall apart in the next 6 months. They have years.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:27 PM   #42
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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Microsoft has a fair portion of the market share as is and is unlikely to win over any of nintendo's market share with higher performance hardware.
well yeah because they both have different target audiences, even though neither will really admit it.

MS certainly has the upper hand on the hardcore gamer and even moderate gamer crowd over Sony. The crowd that Nintendo has is different. Sure this crowd has some of the moderate gamers, but its far more made up by the casual gamer/family's, that want a family friendly system or a system they will play when friends come over.

I don't expect a new system from Nintendo anytime soon, rather, we will likely see more add-ons for the Wii. Things that keep the casual gamers interested, gimmicky things.

What I do think will be interesting, and may force MS to develop a system sooner, is going to be the desire to truely have the all encompassing home entertainment system. Both 360 and PS3 are venturing there right now with streaming/downloadable content. Both allow some connectivity to home PC's as well. We all know thats really MS and Sony's goal, to have that box top system that covers all a homes entertainment needs. Maybe we don't fully know what these two systems are capable of yet, but surely the two companies have ambitious visions for what they want.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:22 PM   #43
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

i say either late 2010 or early 2011
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:52 PM   #44
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Re: How much longer will the XBOX360/PS3...

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i say either late 2010 or early 2011
not a chance. We would already know about it if this was the case.
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