The original poster asking for help clearly isn't at the level where he should be scrimming against professional teams, he doesn't even have a team of his own yet. The conversation did take a different turn though.

@oldgran, the Chinese actually have tournaments where every player has over 200 ping, and they still play rather well. Not that having high ping isn't a big disadvantage, but I don't think it should stop anyone from playing competitively. The really pathetic thing about dota 2 is how even their lan tournaments force players into 200+ ping.

I'd say a large number of decent players can't auto-attack harass the enemy without getting creep aggroed using a non orb hero. Like I said, I learned that this was possible by playing someone far better than me. Just watching others is not enough. You need to play against them.

But anyway, back to the topic. I think the best way to learn about competitive dota is to watch some good competitive games, form a team, play vs other teams in team MM, join local comps, scrim against solid teams (not just from your region), join big comps and then win the international?

Count I think the great thing about chinese dota is their positioning. They are just so good at it. Its so hard to kill an enemy hero because they always know where to place their hero
This then leads to casual fans saying chinese dota is boring because no one dies but the thing is, its so hard to kill the other guy.

When you are scrimming, you are practicing not individual skill, but what to do in certain situations, against certain heroes and strategies. When to push, when to gank, are you in control of the map, when to take team fights etc. Individual skill stuff should be practiced separately.

Yes that is correct.

You could learn from your mistakes and study the opponents team when you get stomped by them. That's the whole point. What could our team have done? What is wrong with our picks? How can we stop their fast push? How can we lose 44-0 when we had a nightstalker who didn't get shut down mid?

Its exactly how I learned when I got stomped by Yamateh on Garena. That is the benefit of getting stomped.

But thats the thing, when the gap is that big, they are just better than you @ everything. So there is nothing that you could of done.

how do you attack without getting creep aggro

If you are 500 units away from the creeps/ use an orb effect or like attack another allied unit straight after.

Ask RebeccaTwigley since he is very much 'in the zone' with dota knowledge and I'm not.

p.s, check your PM.

Haha, NO. You don't have to use an orb effect nor click on an allied unit. Orb effects work within 500 units anyway.

Sure.

Creep aggro has 500 area of effect, lasts for 2 seconds, and a 2 second cooldown for each hero. This cooldown is only activated when a hero is either directly attacked, or a unit visible to the targeted hero is given an order to attack the hero.

This means that when done right a unit can start the cooldown outside of the creep aggro area of effect and then proceed to attack a unit without drawing further aggro since it's on cooldown.

For example PotM's first takes advantage of this. By issuing an order to attack the Alchemist while she is away from the creeps, PotM makes the Alchemists aggro go into cooldown, but because she is farther than 500 from the lane creeps they don't attack her since she is outside of the aggro area of effect. She can now move as close as she wants to attack alchemist without drawing aggro for the next 2 seconds since Alchemists aggro is on cooldown.

By moving outside the area of effect of the aggro and then re-issueing new attack orders on Alchemist, PotM is able to abuse this techinque several times.
__________________

From a forum. Orb walking is used.

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/thread/795517/start/0

here too.

Lol why did you have to google it?

I'm not pro, I don't use this little things enough that I can remember all. My knowledge>ability. I also do not play solo mid enough ( at all competitively) that I need to remember these things.

Dont dota. Play ladder

Sent from my SGH-T989 using 2+2 Forums

Its funny how you were mocking my lack of knowledge just a page before. I shall not do that same to you. Lets just end it here.

Anyway here's Yamateh harassing his opponent withuot getting aggroed.Youtube video

1. Click on the enemy when you are 500 units away from enemy creeps.
2. Immediately click on the ground right next to him or anything that isn't the enemy hero.
3. Click on him again. You now have 2 seconds to attack him without drawing enemy creep aggro.
4. After 2 seconds click on anything that isn't him again and you will not be aggroed. If you fail to do this step the enemy creeps will start attacking you.
5. Move out 500 units away and repeat step 1.

This can also be done within 500 units of enemy creeps if they have no uphill vision of you or you are fogged.

Harassing the enemy this way is especially important if you are playing a support protecting a carry or a solo mid. Very useful for support windrunners and lina etc. Also, remember to cancel your backswing.

pulling aggro as support player/long laner isnt really a bad thing. Obv pulling aggro right under neath your tower is bad, but if you mess a pull, getting aggro and pulling closer to tower is actually good. If the lane is pushed, as a long laner, getting aggro ( most of the time you can't do this because your generally against a good tri-lane or a very strong dual) and pulling closer to the middle of the lane so you can safely get experience. So its really not that important to harass that way. Getting the right timing on stacks and double pulling and denying creeps is way more important as a support. Getting experience > anything on suicide.

wtf is up with all the dick waving going on itt these days?

Nice. I might play some EUW pubs just to test it out.

whattt how does this even work

I got annoyed with the way Rebecca was posting a page before this one. My bad, won't do it again.

I'll make a video soon and post it up here to show you. Its quite simple once you get the hang of it and anyone can do it.

yo i wanna get in on the action, i played pudge mid vs brax the other day and my team won the game.

Holy that's legit awesome. You play on chinese servers? We should play some day.

Nah it was USW, haven't tried Chinese servers but I'm sure I'll ping around 300. It was real brax tho, I saw on DB later he was verified. Dunno why he was on USW.

Talked with Rebecca Twigley in 2p2 chat last night (really cool guy btw), basically you're exploiting the cooldown mechanic on creep aggro. If you attack at the enemy whilst being 500 range from the creeps, you're activating the cooldown since they checked to see if they should attack you, but didn't because you're 500 range away. At that point you've got a cooldown window to strike without fear!

I need to practice and really learn how to do it. Not sure about how this 500 range from creeps will work/how precise you need to be.

The g league finals start at about 5am EST. Should I stay up all night or go to sleep now?

cool preview, with LD q&a http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=401962